Intermittent engine shut down

Car: Toyota Hiace Super Custom 2002/04 auto transmission  - 3.0DT, KZH100G
Engine: 1KT-TE

Car has been serviced every three months.

Hi everyone - long time visitor of this great forum but this is my first post. I have my SC for two years.

Recently, I’ve been plagued by an intermittent engine shut down issue. I live in a remote part of South Australia and I need my car, this is really making things hard.

I don’t want to sell my van but am unsure what to do as this has been an on-going issue and the auto electrician is out of answers.

The issue:

This started about six months ago but has gotten worse and worse.

When driving the car, the engine would cut out intermittently and lose all power (limp mode).
When the engine stops there is a ticking sound, sounds similar to a car's blinker noise.

No lights come up on the dashboard as the car turns off.

When this first started it was once every month or so and manageable.

Then it got worse to the point where it happened most drives.

First thing I did was replace the fuel filter.

This kind of fixed it for a bit but the issue then started happening again. Eventually, the car wouldn’t start in the morning. It would tick over but it wouldn’t start. Almost like there was no fuel.

The auto election scanned the car - he said there were no engine fault codes but my alternator was really old so he replaced it.

This fixed the issue for a few days but then it happened again while I was driving.

Again, the car would tick over but not start. The car sat in a safe location for three days while I tried each day to start it, and on one of the days, it randomly started and I drove it to the auto electrician.

The van sat at his shop for a week and he scanned for engine error codes - eventually he found an error code for the crank angle sensor.

He replaced the crank angle sensor and the car seemed to be going well.

He also replaced the two main main car batteries (which were 10 years old) with new ones along with the vacuum filter.

I did 5000km driving fine and now the engine shutdown issue happened again on the weekend; it went back to the first and most common issue during this whole situation where the engine went limp and shutdown when idling (I had taken my foot off the accelerator as I was coasting downhill).

For the first time the shutdown was accompanied by a beeping noise from the engine.

I was able to drive the car home by keeping the revs high, but every time I had to break or put the car in idle the engine would shut off (this is the issue that has happened the most and this is the most common version of it since the issue started).

The beeping noise which came with the shutdown only happened the first time - but the shut down is now happening again when the car is idling after running for around 10 minutes (not exactly every time).

I’ll also say that once I drive the car around with high revs after this issue has happened for say 10 minutes, then the issue seems to be fixed and the car sits happily in idle.

Another symptom is when the issue starts happening, it usually persists until the auto electrician fixes something in the car; then it seems to go away for a bit (LAST TIME 5000KMS) before it inevitably starts again.

Since then the auto electrician checked all checked all wires to the engine and and wiring to the crank angle sensor and suction control valve. He’s also cleaned all of the plugs going to the motor.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

From my reading on the forum I’m thinking it could be an issue with the ECU capacitors leaking?

I know this is more common on the older SC but out of other options or solutions.

These guys www.absrepair.com.au in Sydney do ECU capacitor repairs.

I took apart my ECU on the weekend and although I know nothing about switch boards I didn’t spot any damage and it looked pretty pristine to be honest.

However, according to the place which does ECU repairs often it’s near impossible to spot damage with naked eye.

I have attached a few photos of my ECU (not sure if this will help).










Would really love any input from you guys.




Adam

Ok so have spoken to that company re the ECU and sent photos and they do not fix newer style SC ECU's.

They looked at the photos and said it looks great and it probably isn't the ECU.

They said these guys fix them for $1200 but they will charge you even if it's not broken: https://injectronics.com.au/

Maybe it is a mechanical fault after all?

Hi there
From the UK ,I had similar issues with my SC and would be pretty sure its the ECU specifically the capacitors there is about 6/7 I had them all replaced they only cost $5/6 dollars each and about an hours work . I found a friendly electronics engineer who replaced them for £40 (obviously no guarantees) but it has run faultless ever since, anyone with practice and the equipment can do the job .

Hi JT thanks for sharing.

What year is your SC?

I have spoken to a few places who repair ECU issues and specialise in capacitor issues. They have told me that this is associated with older models.

Apparently the newer SC (like mine) have different switch boards. They have also looked at the photos and see no leaks.

I spoke to a mechanic who specialises in these imports in NSW today and he thinks it’s something to do with the diesel pump and possibly one of the sensors failing.

I am taking it to a diesal mechanic specialist on Friday.

Hi Again
My SC is a 1996 , the faulty capacitors are quite common for that year and before, not so sure about the later ones,dig into the forum for more info. Hope you have success getting it diagnosed and repaired please keep us informed with progress so many times we never hear the outcome of problems.

Hello sheldogge

I have a different engine that just has a mechanical pump so no ECU to speak of so can’t really advise you about your potential ECU problems but I think JT69 writes wisdom.

I also think you’ve been hard done to. I think you were right to change the fuel filter as many problems start with poor fuel supply. The other area for intermittent problems with fuel relates to air being drawn in. The fuel delivery system (to the pump) is all low pressure and the pump draws diesel from the tank so any problem between these two is likely to draw air in. You can also have a damaged seal etc in the high pressure part. This is likely to show fuel leaking out but can cause air locks if the van is sat for a while.

Oh and also check you've not got an airlock in the tank.

The alternator can easily be tested in situ and I would not expect this to cause intermittent cut-off. If it’s not making enough current or its output voltage is too low then the dash warning light will come on but this should not cause the engine to stop.

Similarly, batteries can easily be tested and provided there is minimal voltage drop (from other consumer units) then decent batteries will keep an ECU’d vehicle running for a long, long time. At 10 years old your batteries might have been ready for replacement, but I think this is a red herring.

Interested to know what the vacuum filter is, please? Can you advise?

So moving on. That ECU does look pretty pristine and intermittent faults are the hardest.

Does your van have an OBD2 port (sometimes called ‘OBDII’)? If so, then an OBD2 code reader might help identify the fault as error codes are generated and stored in non-volatile memory and can be read and cleared. I don’t know when Hiaces got ODB2.
The predecessor to ODB2 was ODB1 but this system still generated and logged fault codes. They are a bit harder to read but there are loads of YT vids on this. To do so, you put the ECU in read back more (by changing a jumper wire) then count the flashings of the check engine light or whatever dash light is used. There’s a standard set of codes for different vehicle ‘modules’. Again I don’t know when and if Hiaces used this but it’s all online.

Going back to the pictures those capacitors look fine, but that is NOT a diagnosis. Electrolytic capacitors, see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolytic_capacitor#Failure_modes,_self-healing_mechanism_and_application_rules

can fail without obvious evidence. Yes, sometimes they bulge or discolour but the ONLY way to test them is with a multimeter that can test capacitors. This is not difficult but the right testing circuitry is not included in basic multimeters. The capacitance of the capacitor is written on each of them (usually in micro or pico Farads) and there’s also a tolerance value (eg + or – 10%). If they are out of specification then the voltages in the board will be wrong and the ECU won’t work as designed.

Ocham’s Razor or the law of parsimony states do the simple things first and I’d want to ensure the fuel supply system is not compromised, but changing sensors to hunt for an intermittent problem is unlikely to make a good and lasting fix.

It’s well known that capacitors fail and those in ECUs (and domestic heating system boards and computer monitors to name but two others) are well known to be problematic. Swapping in a second-hand board or ECU is not likely to be very satisfactory as it’s probably just as old and likely to suffer from similar problems and can also be quite expensive and might not have any warranty, either.

Unless you can rule out a problem with the ECU I’d be keen to test the capacitors (search YT) or find someone with a bit of an electrical engineering or electronics background to do this for you. If any of them test bad then get them swapped out.

Finally, another way that boards fail is to develop a dry joint. This is usually at manufacture but can appear if a component wasn’t properly soldered and the component or board is distorted. A keen-eyed electronics wizard can often spot these, which are usually more obvious from the other side of the board to your pictures.

HTH!

Quote :

When the engine stops there is a ticking sound, sounds similar to a car's blinker noise.

yep...you are now looking for a dodgy solenoid or relay......i have no clue which one....but use your ears and feel the body of suspect relays when that ticking sound returns

Quote :

The auto election scanned the car - he said there were no engine fault codes but my alternator was really old so he replaced it.

I would believe that if i saw it...noting that your care has an obd2 port...but the protocol is a unique toyota protocol that most scantools cannot read....if autoelectrician has not paid for the additional software for your vehicle than he cannot scan your car.

You can do this yourself with a laptop, J2534 adaptor and Techstream software....I haven't but yes it's doable

Quote :

He also replaced the two main main car batteries (which were 10 years old) with new ones along with the vacuum filter.

well that's a waste....you have a "cold climate" starter dual battery...useful for Canada, parts of Japan....he could have snipped off the joining cable...kept the best of the 2 batteries (one fails before the other)...or just replaced one.

...what is a vaccum filter?

Quote :

From my reading on the forum I’m thinking it could be an issue with the ECU capacitors leaking?

yes i would suspect that also....noting that the ECU is same part number across all 1KZTE Super Customs (but no other Toyotas)..swapping that out is an option...but unless you know one being wrecked.....if it weren't for the current Russian situation, you could have one for $200 delivered.

Quote :

From my reading on the forum I’m thinking it could be an issue with the ECU capacitors leaking?

yes i would suspect that also....noting that the ECU is same part number across all 1KZTE Super Customs (check that using epc-data and ToyoDIY)(but no other Toyotas)..swapping that out is an option...but unless you know one being wrecked.....if it weren't for the current Russian situation, you could have one for $200 delivered.

EDIT: please check this part number 89661-26640 .....TOYODIY

EDIT: maybe repost your question at Facebook forum includes Super Customs .....maybe ask Hugo if he has an ECU to sell you

I know you said you replaced the fuel filter but depending on the style of filter housing there is another o-ring on top that could well be failing. These vans are getting old, with very hot engine bays and anything made of rubber (or nitrile or any o-ring) will be hardened and non-plastic.
Because there’s no low pressure fuel pump pushing from the tank in these, problems with seals will suck air into the line without showing leaks and can give the exact symptoms you have. Konk-out 5-10 mins after starting and random cut-outs. Worth replacing as it’s a relatively easy job.

From memory you unscrew the manual priming button with the philips head (sorry, this is Japanese it’s technically a JIS screw but who has one of those?) and you’ll get to the o-ring that seals the shaft of the prime-pump into the housing.

Hi
Look for air in the system by placing clear pipe on return to tank pipe or into clear bottle the return flow is quite high rate so very tolerant of air ingress this will also check for blockages in system I suffered from pick up in tank strainer blockage also the tank has breather pipe with a filter that can blockwith dust causing vacuum in tank.

The priming pump diaphram on top of the fuel filter can crack, and air can get in.

The pump head itself is fairly cheap, and can be identified by sight on eBay for a more popular Toyota model, check the directions of the input and output pipe and it should fit.

This would be a simple, precautionary service fix TBH.

Just read the comment that you had a ticking sound my sc did this if coming from IP pump its the pump shut off/controller caused by faulty capacitors on ecu, or at least mine certainly was new ones cured it .

If its not the ECU, i think itz a slow electrical failing component, specifically one of the valves on the injection pump.

-Spill control valve
-Timing control valve

Here is some tests you can do on these with a multimeter



Where was the ticking sound coming from?

So I took the car to a diesel mechanic.

He said he had a look at the lines going to the injector pump and noticed on of the plugs was loose. He fixed it up but admitted this might not solve it (he said he had worked on other import vehicles in the past where this was the problem).

It fixed the issue for a couple of months but now it's started happening again. The engine simply dies (no ticking now).

When the engine shuts down the car stays on, but all the dashboard lights come on.

The engine only dies when the car is idling.... For example on road trips the car is generally fine because the revs are kept high but it's impossible to drive around the city. I'm thinking of adjusting the idle speed in the meantime.

Have you checked all the vacuum lines for leaks & cracks? Especially the ones on the intake pipe for the intake constrictor control. Plus the condition of the 2 electrical connectors there.

sheldogge wrote:

I'm thinking of adjusting the idle speed in the meantime.

If it's an automatic, please do not even consider this!!

TBH buying new vacuum pipes is not a bad idea, cheap and easy, and the old ones are probably due for replacement. Also the fuel primer valve - sometimes they leak, suck in air and cause problems.

Just wanted to give you guys an update as the problem is still persisting.

I got the engine scanned while the problem was happening and it threw code p1225 - spill control circuit fault. Apparently the SPV regulates the fuel so this would make sense as to why the car was dying on idle?

Anyway, I took it to the mechanic to get the SPV replaced.

He checked the car for any air leaks - there were none. All filters have been replaced recently as well as batteries and alternator.

He had a look at the fuel pump and noticed that the plug on the timing control valve was not in properly (he said the connection was loose and there was lots of old glue around it).

He managed to plug it in properly and get a good connection. He said he wanted to start with the cheap fix.

So, it ran good for about a week until: I was driving and the engine light came on! (this is the first time it has come on during this problem over the the year).

The engine light now comes on during most drives. And last time I couldn't get the car started again. When the light is on, it is gutless - i.e, can'r rev, and there is a loud knocking noise.

Took it back to the mechanic - he scanned the car and its now showing two error codes:

P1220 - Timer control circuit fault and

p1225 - Spill control circuit fault (the same one as before).

He reckons I'm probably going to need a new pump which is $2500...

I live rurally and he said we could send it off to an injector pump specialist to make sure its the pump but I am so over this! It's been almost a year of problems.

I'm concerned that a new pump might not even solve the issue....

Look at SIMILAR TOPICS Intermittent limp mode issue 1999 Hiace Super Custom loads of suggestions. The joys of running an older car, my 1996 passed the MOT yesterday with one small advisory and I would trust it to drive round the world tomorrow.

If you go the way of a pump, a used one from as late a model Prado with the 1KZ is the way to go. If you can find one it won’t be cheap but still less than half new. I think they were still used up to 2006 in the first few years of the newer shape Prado.

Hi guys,

Does anyone have the complete picture for the mulitmetre tests needed for the Spill Valve Control solenoid?

ISSUE RESOLVED.


Hey guys.

Just thought I would let everyone know including future lurkers that this issue has been solved by replacing the injector pump completely.

I finally was able to get an auto mechanic to scan the engine when the fault was happening and it showed an issue with the spill valve solenoid.

I probably would have been fine to just replace this part, but they can be tricky to find.

Luckily I found someone on Ebay selling the complete pump for $900 (much cheaper than from Denso).

It's been in for a few months and I have done about 12,000kms, no issues.

Glad you got a result but you can service the spill valve yourself usually no parts required they usually just gum up and need disassembly and reassembly , go to Youtube Medina diesel lab 1kzte spill valve its all there. I would certainly have a try and I am 75 and not a mechanic just a DIYer.