Starter Motor Relay/Solenoid Troubles

Hi all
Back with another trouble and a few questions. I've searched for issues related to this on here already, but none of the results I found helped me.

Just recently my Hiace (1994 SCL, 1kz-te) started having some trouble starting. When I turn the key after hearing the glow relay click the second time, it just does a loud *click* and nothing. However, I would say maybe 33% of the time it starts no problem (sometimes past the first turn of the key) and maybe 5% of the time it will turn over partially and not quite start.
At first I thought it was a glow plug issue, but those seem to all be heating up and the rail is getting the required voltage while the relay is switched on. It also starts perfectly fine from cold if the first ignition is the magical functioning one. Sometimes the issue crops up while the vans been driven for a while and only shut off briefly, so I doubt it's glow plugs.

My next step is the starter. However, this is where I need some assistance.
This thread says that the relay is AM1 on a box attached to the battery:
https://hiace-super-custom.forumotion.com/t4170-starter-relay-location?highlight=starter

However, when I look in that area, all I see is a 50A fuse labeled AM1, which I pulled and it only appeared to turn off the dash.



The engine manual has this image for the starter relay:


I looked for that in the relay set inside the passenger footwell, as well as next to the steering column, but to no avail:





I did pull the AM1 fuse but all that did was disable the dash display, the car still started fine.

So question #1 is, where is this relay box that's maybe in the engine bay somewhere located? I want to check and replace the relay first.

Some internet research led to believe that another possible culprit of this is the starter solenoid. It seems like I can either replace the whole solenoid, or just use a rebuild kit. The issue I am running into here is I cannot figure out, even by putting in my exact chassis code at megazip.net, I still see the choice of 2.2kW starter and 2.7kW starter. Does anyone know how to differentiate between the without pulling the starter and hoping to find a part # on it?



Hoping to get some info on both of these questions, either way I will report back with what I find.

Thanks everyone.

If you hear a big click.. that's probably the starter solenoid...

If the lights do not dim, it's probably open circuit.. but check the cable too, and the earth strap: before going for the starter. It's possibly a worn commutator or brushes, but check everything else first.

Intermittent faults are always awkward, good luck!

Will do.
The lights do dim when I try to start.

Will check cabling and such and maybe while I'm down there I can find the part #.

Probably worth removing terminals, cleaning, greasing and refitting if you can, but I recommend you disconnect the battery as the starter wire is IIRC, always live.

Sounds like the contacts that are engaged by the starter solenoid are burnt / pitted and make only a poor or intermittent contact (common fault with starter motors). We had to have ours done (different model Hiace of course) and our auto sparkie found that the adjustment of the contacts was somewhat critical, took him two attempts go get it reliable.

..agree with AgathaAlice, internal solenoid contacts need replacement. Done that a couple of time in my time on the Surf..

Guaranteed it’ll be the starter solenoid. Very very very common for Denso starters on Toyotas of this era and beyond. Pretty sure they’re fundamentally all the same for this era too.

Thanks for the help everyone, I appreciate the guidance. Given me more confidence to dive in.

Hopefully weather cooperates and I'll give updates on what I find.

The lights dim because the resistance goes up as the contacts get worse. Often jumping with a second battery will make it start leading to the belief the battery is failing, but… it’s the solenoid contacts.

You’ll find removing the starter far simpler by removing the rear bulkhead engine/transmission cover. Worth the 10 mins.

You’ll also see the starter part number plate on the side too.

Good to know. I actually have everything seats out and carpets already since I am in the process of cleaning each piece to remove smoke residue, so taking off that bulkhead should be a quick process.

I had the same problem it ended up being the solinoid. ordered parts from Toyota dealer and rebuilt it I've had no problems since, make sure you keep battery fully charged as that is what can damage the solinoid. hope this helps

cheers dave

Got out and took the starter out tonight, took longer than anticipated due to my own stupidity. (Trying to remove the nut from the bottom bolt which is on the far side underneath the starter and had 0 leverage. Took me many minutes of screwing around with this before I realized it's a thru bolt and I could just put the wrench on the bolt head and push straight down... ta da! problem solved)

Cleaned it up a bit afterwards with a wire brush and cleaner:



I would say everyone's suspicions were right. The 3 bolts that hold the rear plate of the solenoid on were finger tight at best and the little copper plates inside as well as the plunger were covered in gunk and pitted. The two copper plates were also worn extremely unequally.


Do you think someone would have replaced a single one at some point or could the loose rear cap have caused the plunger to contact off-kilter and wear these away so unequally?

I did unearth one additional problem, however. The small flat connector comes out the bottom and has a Philips screw (probably JIS Type S really) that is completely rusted.



Even after hitting with penetrating lube the screw started stripping instantly. The rubber cover for it is also totally cracked up.
So my question for this is do you think I should:

1. Leave it, clean it off best I can with electrical parts cleaner and rust remover, use dielectric grease, bodge the cover with superglue after cleaning
   
2. Try to cut/drill the screw, get a new small stainless bolt, grease, bodge etc.
   
3. Is this enough of a problem to replace the solenoid/motor
   

Currently planning on ordering this kit to replace from Roughtrax
https://www.roughtrax4x4.com/toyota-4x4-parts/engine-parts/starter-motors/genuine-toyota-2-7kw-starter-solenoid-repair-kit.html

However, they also have this entire new motor:
https://www.roughtrax4x4.com/toyota-4x4-parts/engine-parts/starter-motors/kuhner-premium-starter-motor-12v-2-7-kw-2.html
Not OEM, but certainly not an Alibaba knockoff either.

I lean towards #1 as it is the path of least resistance/damage and if it doesn't work I can go from there.

Thanks again so help so far, and let me know your thoughts.

That connection still looks electrically sound from your photo so I'd go with cleaning it up as much as you can and sealing it up so no more corrosion can happen.
Replace those contacts, make sure everything is good and tight and clean but do check that when the solenoid plunger is pushed fully in there is good physical contact with some spare movement available i.e. that the contacts are not 'only just' touching or they will be intermittent or fail again quickly. There's an absolutely huge amount of current flows through those so even the tiniest amount of electrical resistance is a problem.
If you can see while you have it all apart, check the condition of the brushes and the commutator surface, replace the brushes if they look well down as it will save you from having to pull it out again some time later if they wear out.
I doubt that anyone would replace a single contact, so I'd think the loose bolts would have been a contributor to uneven wear.

Just wanted to do a quick wrap-up on this one.

I bought the roughtrax 4x4 kit mentioned above. Was really just bags of Toyota parts so everything fit. Used the instructions from the 1kz engine manual to reassemble. (well, other than the part where it wanted me to do math for the holddown pressure, I just put it in a vice)

The cracked rubber cover I mentioned above I just cleaned, superglued the cracks, taped it all, called it good.

Reinstalled and presto! Starts on the first key turn.
My first more sizeable engine project on this was a success so that gives me more confidence.

Thanks all.

Good result!

Hello folks.

Really good set of posts here.

About the first thing I did on my van was recondition the starter motor as it was just starting to get the occasional click but not run and I absolutely did not want to get stranded.

First thing I'd say is that the generic manuals (try hiacesoutheast online) are excellent. Also, YouTube is your friend as there are loads and loads of refurb videos on Toyota starter motors. The DENSO starters that Toyota use / used are all quite similar but they do range in power. Mine is a 2.7kW unit and don't forget that aftermarket units are pretty cheap if this is the route you need. I could get one of these for ~£100 but was told that it wouldn't be a DENSO OEM unit. I was told these are no longer available, but others might have sources.

The good news is that there's little to go wrong with a starter so if it's not been abused you probably just need two starter kits (the posts) and a new plunger if this is worn, but I probably replaced mine unnecessarily.  Like the examples in the earlier messages the posts (well the contacts) on mine were badly warn, and one much more than the other.

Unit


Innards showing uneven wear.


With new posts and every thing clean (do read on):


Please note that on this picture the right hand post is not tight. It's possible to tighten the left one easily (in this orientation), but this right one is harder as if not restrained it will twist and be un-level. The manual suggests putting a block of hardwood in the space and using a drill press or similar to apply a force to prevent the twist when tightening. Use whatever you have as it's important these remain flat in relation to the plunger.

After cleaning (also new coverplate than I didn't really need and note the plate comes with a new gasket, well mine did) and a rattlecan and wire brush restoration:


I put clear self-adhesive sheet (book cover stuff) over the labels and masked these before painting. Also, I think the origianl M4 machine screws / bolts or whatever that hold the cover place are just P2 round-headed. I found these hex heads as I had a devil of a job getting the old machine screws out. I used a blob of locktite to secure these too.

My pinion gear could be turned backwards

This is a technical no-no but I couldn't replace the pinion clutch as I mangled one of the mounting fasteners. I don't think this is a show stopper and not had any problems to date.

Finally, the starter solenoid is mounted close to the cabin ventiation fan (on my van anyway). It's a big silver thing and looks like this:


It's not helpful that when installed the writing is on the hidden side.

You can see it, towards the left of this picture:


Think you need to remove the glove box for access...

Finally remember to install BOTH negative leads to the battery posts otherwise after all your hard work the solenoid will click but the starter won't turn and you will be very frustrated. Ask me how I know...

Hey there, first post. I joined the Toyota Hiace SC family and after two days of driving around with a big happy grin in my face, we where hit with an ice storm and I was cursed with the no start. When I turn the key I get the loud "click" which I am assuming is my solenoid not making contact. I checked all major connections, topped off the battery, still a no go.

As a side note, I also think that the glow plugs are not working correctly. When I turn the key over to the position before start, the coil light comes up for only a half second before turning off. From the information I have seen this light should stay on as the glow plugs go through a sequence of high to dropping voltage to do the necessary warming. Obviously if this was happening in the middle of the summer, no problem, the engine should already be warm. But trying it when the outside temperature was 30F, I was rather surprised to see it turn off immediately. I suspect this is a totally separate issue, but thought I would mention it just in case.

I have been following this thread (as well as others) to try and get at that starter so that I can try to rebuild the solenoid contacts (hoping that is the issue). I am stuck on the 17mm nut on the underside holding the starter in place. I have been PB blasting like a madman, tried some heating (though perhaps not enough), and have reefed on that nut with an eye popping amount of force, no budge. Some of the other bolts on my way here definitely took some serious force to break free, but I am a bit desperate now. It looks like this is is a nut on a bolt, so I assume once I break it free ill need two wrenches to properly pull them apart. I have only been trying to put power on the nut (left hand side on the circled area), should I instead by using two wrenches at once to bust this free? No room for an impact driver (perhaps could get a little dewalt 20V cordless in there). Any advice?

As a follow up, it looks like there is another cover I can remove to get to the upper bolt (not in photo) from the driver side. Is that the best way to reach it?

Quote :

As a follow up, it looks like there is another cover I can remove to get to the upper bolt (not in photo) from the driver side. Is that the best way to reach it?

Not sure what you've taken off so far, but I recall having to take off pretty much all of the panels. You'll need to take out the center console to free your carpets and then pull them away from the wall at the rear of the engine (footwell of the front row of rear seats). There is a panel that covers the transmission there. You can also remove the entire passenger seat panel.

Quote :

As a side note, I also think that the glow plugs are not working correctly.

I see this behavior all the time, and I think others do too. However, the relay for them will click on in the dash and then will click again afterwards when they're heated. On warm days for me this is a very short 5-10 seconds or shorter but can take much longer on cold days.

Sorry I can't be of more help on the bolt/nut. Looking at old photos of when I did mine, it looks like both a nut and bolt. If you have a impact gun it can't hurt since you can always replace both nut/bolt later. Or very worst case you can cut it.

This post is a bit of a blast from the past!

From memory, you can remove the starter motor from below, but like shaggy0928 suggests, there is much better and more helpful access if you remove the centre engine cover as he shows in his pictures. Getting this cover off in a ‘commercial’ van is pretty easy as it’s fairly accessible but with more van fitments it gets increasingly complicated. My camper unit covers this hatch and as he says the carpets (vanpets?) are poppered to the ‘step’ area.

Also from memory there are three (maybe?) bolts that secure the starter and I think two of them are engine to transmission bell housing bolts. There is a steel plate that is sandwiched between the engine and bell housing if you’re wondering what that black line might be? This might depend on the engine / transmission, but I’m pretty sure that the starter pokes through this plate.

Yes, an impact driver is a godsend but also so is an induction heater. If you’re seriously into repairing older vehicles, especially if subject to rust etc them these are simply brilliant and mine (from Amazon) has paid for itself many times over in freeing up fasteners that would otherwise be impossible to remove. Search for something like “Flameless Handheld Induction Heater Kit Bolt Heater for Rusty Screws Removal”.

The transmission / starter mount bolts shouldn’t really need heating up. I think the heads of these bolts have the typical Toyota markings on them that specify their torque values. These are in the intro section of every Toyota manual (well all I’ve seen), see below.

As posted above there are loads of excellent YT vids on servicing the Toyota / DENSO starter motors. I would strongly recommend doing this over swapping one out or buying a replacement. The OEM starters are excellent. As I put above my failed the reverse test, but it’s great with the new contacts and plunger (maybe latter a bit unnecessary). I think there are 3 or 4 different motors depending on engine type and there should be a Toyota / DENSO digit on the thing.

On a wider note there are loads of links to hopefully helpful resources including manuals, exploded diagrams of assemblies and parts resources etc in the first post in my show us yours section. I wrote it as ‘a post once, refer to often’ idea and I hope there might be something useful there for you.

Working on these vans can be a bit odd and knowing what’s where and how it works can be a puzzle. I found the EPC resources gave me a lot more confidence to work on my van.

Good luck and HTH!!

Thank you both for the encouraging words! I ended up picking up a long breaker bar, that did the trick, that was quite the bolt. Ended up pulling up the front end of the carpet and removing that access panel (left the center console and driver seat in place). Second bolt was no big deal. It ended up just being two bolts to get the starter off (well, a nut & bolt combo, and a nut that fastened to a bolt protrusion that is casted in the starter.
I opened up the solenoid and to my relief, it had the same tell tale ware signs as your photos. For some reason I cannot link that photo, even though I got away with it in my last post, but nothing new to see. Was able to get some spares at a local HiAce shop (thank you Vanlife Northwest out of Portland, OR). I was able to rebuild the solenoid, throw it back in and my van fired up right away.
Ill say that I dont have a ton of automotive experience outside of gaskets, spark plugs, and some sensors on my Subaru. If you are reading this and are unsure that you can do this job done, you can do it, just be prepared to get really dirty and crawl under your van more times then you can count.

TheBeninator wrote:

As a side note, I also think that the glow plugs are not working correctly. When I turn the key over to the position before start, the coil light comes up for only a half second before turning off. From the information I have seen this light should stay on as the glow plugs go through a sequence of high to dropping voltage to do the necessary warming. Obviously if this was happening in the middle of the summer, no problem, the engine should already be warm. But trying it when the outside temperature was 30F, I was rather surprised to see it turn off immediately. I suspect this is a totally separate issue, but thought I would mention it just in case.

I've got a petrol van, so can't say directly. But I remembered a video about this and dug it up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN0SrqGyWgg

Looks like it's normal for a later van.