1kz-te starter motor removal?

Hi all,

First post,

I have a 1995 Hiace super custom living saloon. best car. ever.

So its been having starting issues, as in, when i turn the key it just 'clicks' once and doesnt do anything, I can keep turning the key from ACC to START and back and forth and all I get is that 'click' - sometimes it will suddenly turn over, or attempt to, slowly, then maybe start. Its getting worse and I couldnt start it this morning at all, just the click again....

Im fairly confident its the starter motor.

Has any one removed it themselves? how hard is it? I have grown up working on my own cars however never something with such limited access space around the engine, and never a diesel. I am pretty sure I have located it, on the passenger side of the engine in behind the oil filter...

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Sorry cant help...Good luck though and keep us updated (pics would be great)

Hmmmm, starter motors usually work or they don;t. The fact that it turns over occasionally suggests either a bad connection or solenoid issue.

First off make sure your batteries are up to snuff.
Then check all the connections from the battery to the solenoid and all of the connections on the solenoid and starter motor are clean and tight.

I once parked my car on a hill for 4 months b/c I couldn’t afford to replace the starter. I was a major pain in the butt as the hill was 4 blocks from where I lived. When springtime came I went to take the starter off I noticed the ignition wire on the solenoid was badly corroded.... I cleaned up the connection and it started fine for the remaining 3 years I had the vehicle.

never mind at least you kept fit for 4 months

zoochy wrote:

Hmmmm, starter motors usually work or they don;t. The fact that it turns over occasionally suggests either a bad connection or solenoid issue.

I have heard they can work intermittently? As sometimes the brushes (or contacts?) or whatever get work in some areas and don’t make contact so the starter motor doesn’t spin, then you as your trying it could make contact and allow it to start, like when you physically hit it or rock it (in the case of a manual).

My saloon is auto so I have no other starting options.

It has continued to serve me will with 0 failures since last Thursday, my next steps will be replacing the battery and taking all the stone guards off the bottom of the van to gain access to the starter and clean it and its connections. Will let you know how that goes, and take a couple pics while im at it. Thanks for everyones input so far… I have needed my van bad in the last 5/6 days other wise I would have fixed it earlier – just soo lucky its kept working!

Like wise with my starter motor about 6 months ago every now and again it would just click when turning the ignition key this occurrence steadily got worse until it was the 6th to 10th turn before the engine was started. Always after a series of clicks then a slight try before finally turning the engine over.
Finally with it not starting at all it was time to look into this, checked through the electrics everything looked well with a volt / ammeter. So under the car I went removing all the mud guarding, then the engine block earth followed by the two electric connections to the starter motor after disconnecting the car battery. OK so just two nuts to undo the lower one being a through bolt with the upper being a captured stud in the starter motor housing. A bit of jiggle and it’s out – after cleaning it up I reconnected it to the battery independent leads and with a quick brush across the ignition terminal on the starter motor it clicked and shot the cog out but did not turn on the twelveth attempt again after it turned a small amount on the next try it spun correctly.

Now to find a replacement - after the sixth number on my not very long list of specialist Manchester scrap yards I was lucky in fact very lucky. “Yes mate just sold a 1KZ engine an hour ago off a Granvia and put the starter on the shelve.” “Yours for £50.00.”

Fitted it - car started first time! So I’ll get the other one reconditioned if possible and hang onto it. Also try and get information as to what part has stopped working.

Ho part numbers are: -

Original starter motor details

TOYOTA
28100 67070
228000-5340
Deso 12V

Stamped with 9 011

Second hand one fitted 19/10/10

TOYOTA
28100 67070
228000-5342
Deso 12V

Stamped with 07 002

Dug up an old one mate, sometimes the bendix (cog on the front) gets gunked up and doesn't slide in freely so a bit of a clean gets it flying again. Tho while it's out a check of the inside doesn't hurt. A sparky can give a quick check of the field and the commy and you can do the brushes.
Thanks for the part numbers and info.

Toyota (Denso) starters wear on the solenoid contacts, this leads to starting problems - normally when it is pouring down and you are on the way to a wedding!
Easy to replace, plenty of kits on ebay. If you have done it before you could do it without removing the starter.
NOTE _ DISCONNECT THE BATTERY BEFORE DOING ANYTHING!

Having often taken useful hints from this site I've not really been able to offer much, until maybe now.

I had the clicking problems which also worsened to almost every time I tried to start the motor. I cleaned all terminals\earth with no effect and had the batteries checked.

I bit the bullet and removed the starter using Gone Diving's instructions (thanks). Noting Clive's comment (cheers) about the solenoid contacts (and that sounding like the place to look) I removed the 3nr bolts on the back of the solenoid, took off the back cover plate and withdrew the 'sliding' core of the solenoid. (probably wrong terminology). It slides straight out with no hidden complications (phew).

The core carries a bronze 'disc'. When the solenoid is operated by the ignition key the 'core' is thrown forward under magnetism and the disc makes the circuit across the two bronze contacts, as well as throwing the bendix bit out. The disc and contacts on mine were quite badly pitted. I gave them a good clean/grinding with firstly coarse then a fine grit paper. Put it all back together and the old girl hasn't clicked since (1 month and counting) and we've had both freezing and damp weather. I think/hope(?) she might be fixed and it hasn't cost a penny!

I hope this may be of use to others and that it can fix your clicking too. I'll put a post back up if she starts again but let's hope that's not for a long time eh.

I took a couple of photos of the solenoid inner but clearly I'm rubbish as my attempt to upload to the web failed!

FYI the codes on my starter motor are:
28100 54250
128000-9581
12v 6N11
Denso
85 (in big letters)

Thanks all

i in the end brought another starter off ebay , £100 and viola the slowllllllllly turning over issue went away , i could have looked into a rebuild but it was quick and simple and i missed my van

Hi
Which bolts do I remove to remove the starter?  2000 Super Custom Diesel KZH106w


It is pretty hard to see.  
There is one big one at the top.  I will remove that one.
There is one that holds a bracket at the bottom.
Then there is one behind that one.  Is that the one to remove?  I hope it just goes into the casting!

I am trying to do this without jacking up the car.
After it is loose can I just wiggle it out of there.  It looks pretty tight.

Thanks all   and I appreciate the thread!
I could not post a pic - but here is a link to a picture.
Is it the green one or the blue?
https://imgur.com/McLLpQ1

spiral wrote:

Hi
Which bolts do I remove to remove the starter?  2000 Super Custom Diesel KZH106w


It is pretty hard to see.  
There is one big one at the top.  I will remove that one.
There is one that holds a bracket at the bottom.
Then there is one behind that one.  Is that the one to remove?  I hope it just goes into the casting!

I am trying to do this without jacking up the car.
After it is loose can I just wiggle it out of there.  It looks pretty tight.

Thanks all   and I appreciate the thread!
I could not post a pic - but here is a link to a picture.
Is it the green one or the blue?
https://imgur.com/McLLpQ1

Look on here for your van and get the parts diagram up for your starter, then you'll see how it's held in:
http://jp-carparts.com/toyota/partlist.php?maker=toyota&type=711140&cartype=136

It was the green one. You can feel around the starter to see which bolts are long enough to hold it on.

The parts diagram did not help a great deal but thanks for the try.
Cheers

Congrats!! The green one did look more 'in-line' with the starter.

I'm impressed you managed to get it out without jacking the van - what engine do you have in there?

deleted

Hi
It is the Kzh-106w   3000 turbo diesel.  
I managed it OK.  I don't like getting right under the car with jacks.  I hope going back it goes as well.

https://imgur.com/a/u6y13a1


Is this normally this rusty?

Cheers

Amazing you got it out - did you drop it down or pull it past the engine?

Looks more rusty than normal - is that what killed your starter?
If you've got it submerged I'd check the engine oil + ATF in the transmission for water contamination.

Maybe the same water that soaked the insulation also caused that rust.

The starter motor drops down. I needed to remove the metal undercar pans and I removed one body ground wire.

Yes, this is all salt water damage. The back end floated and was moved over. Nothing got into the passenger compartment. The solenoid was full of what looked like sand. Motor ran fine and oil was changed - ATF seems Ok I hope. Just trying to sort it all out.

Cheers

spiral wrote:

The starter motor drops down.  I needed to remove the metal undercar pans and I removed one body ground wire.  

Yes, this is all salt water damage.  The back end floated and was moved over.  Nothing got into the passenger compartment.  The solenoid was full of what looked like sand.  Motor ran fine and oil was changed - ATF seems Ok I hope.  Just trying to sort it all out.  

Cheers

Ah Ok - I see!! The first amphibious Hiace

I'd advise leaving it to rest for a day (to let any water settle) and then drain the diff oil out and replace, there is a vent hole on the top and (salt!) water may have got in.

I'd also do a partial change on the ATF for the same reason, where the filler pipe joins the transmission pan there is a loose joint (to allow the pan to be removed without the filler pipe being moved), and the gearbox could have sucked water in through that. If it's the A340E box (AKA A30-40L) you need to get the front of the van raised a little first so the pan drains properly. A partial (pan) change of oil is 3 litres of DII (DIII-H) Dexron ATF for that box, also note the colour. If it's brown or darker check it and change it regularly as required until it's pink/red again.

These contaminations will be worse if the transmission and diff were hot at the time they got wet. The cold water cools the items which then sucks the water in.

I'd also give it a good fresh water spray hose down underneath to wash away any salt left as these vans rust if provoked.
And clean the spare wheel and mechanism too of course . And inside the read brake drums...

Thanks all very good advice.
I'll change those fluids. I hope it is not too late.

Yes, it has been well washed. The rust started immediately. One I stop working on it I intend to do a liberal oil spray on it.

I have never changed the Atf but I'll do soon. I won't get the rebuilt starter for a few days.

Cheers

Good idea to spray some oil like ACF-50 over all the little bits - the read brake compensator mechanism, the handbrake mechanisms and any electrical connectors.

Take the brake drums off too and make sure that is OK inside also. Also take all teh wheels off and grease the wheel fit surfaces and wheel nuts so they don't rust on solid.

ATF is easy but you'll need a new copper washer for the plug. Remember to raise the front well so any water comes out too, and put around 2.75 litres back (or the same amount that came out) and and then top-up as required - check level with engine running at idle. Check the auto dipstick for the type of ATF it wants and note it has different ranges for a hot and cold gearbox.

If it's all working it should be saveable, you just have to work around all the parts in contact with the water.

Yes lots to do! Lots of stuff on order now.

I'll let you know how it all goes!

Thanks for the help.
Cheers

Sounds an interesting project! Did you buy it like that or have you had it a while?

Whereabouts are you in Japan?
I bought mine from Japan and tracked it as it was shipped. I bought it as it was cheap and looked cool, it's not been flooded but it had been neglected so I can identify with your work!

BTW you can embed pics here (I recommend https://postimages.org/ ) of the progress, would be great to see a pic of the whole van.

Hi

I bought mine almost new with 5000k - now 180,000k.
It has survived other cars I have had and been very reliable.
I am 90k west of Tokyo on the coast.

It appears no water in the AT - it was due for a change anyway.
The rebuild starter comes today!
Looking for a repair manual! 2000 Super Custom diesel
Cheers

Wow that's good!
Mine is on 198,000k now!

Good news the ATF was OK.

If your ATF came out brown (rather than pink or red) check the colour (via the dipstick onto a white surface) in about 100 km to see if the new ATF is dirty. New ATF is very aggressive at cleaning and if your transmission needed a clean all the dirt will get into the ATF - so you may need to change it again.

Mine was brown but the new stuff went black with dirt and I'm now on my 4th change and now have a good colour ATF. Interestingly my torque converter now has more 'creep' than it did when I started. I'm using synthetic DIII-H stuff but DII is probably fine for cleaning.

My Hiace was shipped from Kawasaki IIRC, close to you. It then did an amazing world tour on the car boat past the Pyramids of Egypt, I'm a bit jealous of my van's travels LOL.

Manuals are usually around on the web, e.g:
https://rg.to/file/1d20f83f54dc7dae047ffdcf7896b99c/HiaceElectrical.zip.html
and
https://rg.to/file/2774e1f990089c58f2ce47a4f079fcff/HIACE_1989-2004_RZH-LH.zip.html

No one has found one specifically for the Super custom