All dash lilghts on buzzer on initial start up problem

Evening all,

Hoping one of you guys can help.

The other day I started up my van and all the dash lights came on immediately after start up, and the audible alarm kicked in. I immediately switched off the engine and checked my fluid levels. The oil was fine but I had lost about a litre of antifreeze, (I topped up both the main system, and the expansions tank which was below minimum)

I started the van up again but still had all the lights and the audible alarm. I left the van overnight so it could properly cool down but unfortunately I still had the alarm, and all the dash lights back on upon start up and I could also hear the fan kicking in really quickly. Looking on the forum it looked like it was thermostat related so I ordered up the part and then had my garage fit it today. Apparently when the old thermostat was taken out it literally fell apart.

Unfortunately, when i picked my van up from the garage tonight all the lights and audible alarm came on directly after start up. I've now got the van booked in again for Monday. I drove my van home and could hear the fan kick in, and although the temperature gauge was reading normal, the engine did feel hotter than normal.

Any ideas? I had the fluid flushed a couple of years ago as part of the maintenance, and I'm religious about checking my fluids before long journey's and on a regular basis. The temperature gauge never goes above the middle point (but reading a previous thread it looks like it's not that accurate anyway).

Cheers,

Rich

Not sure how accurate the temperature gauge is on a 2.8, you could test it by disconnecting the sensor in the side of the head and sweeping a variable resistor from say 500 ohms to 20 ohms while looking at the gauge if you want to find out.

Sounds like the engine starts and runs OK?

I'm not convinced there is a 'all lights on and alarm' valid Toyota mode, usually if something bad happens you'll get a red light on the dash only. Therefore I'd be suspecting an electrical fault, possibly a cable or loom shorting out or perhaps a ground fault or even a fuse. Or the alternator (see below). As the fuses are the easiest to test I'd check all the fuses carefully first.

Here are some related diagrams I came across (copy paste into your browser): rapidgator.net/file/1d20f83f54dc7dae047ffdcf7896b99c/HiaceElectrical.zip.html

When you turn the key all the dash lights come on anyway - do they merely stay on? If so it could be that the usual electrical method that turns them OFF when the engine actually start has failed. You will note in the diagram
"Gauges, diesel joined.pdf" there are some diodes that come out at pin 6(c) 'see charging system'. This suggests that the alternator 'waking up' switches them all off from the test mode (the diodes are there to enforce the test lighting of them) - so I'd look at the wiring to the alternator - and check the battery voltage when you start it. It could well be that the alternator has failed.

So the easy things are: a) Fuses, b) Meaure the voltage before you start it, then when it's running the voltage should rise above the value when you first looked, and gradually head above 13 or even 14 volts.

Just to add to GPWs advice a simple cigarette lighter voltage reader that I use is great

JT69 wrote:

Just to add to GPWs advice a simple cigarette lighter voltage reader that I use is great  

Hi!
This is the one I bought, it's awesome.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-1A-Dual-USB-Car-Charger-2-Port-LCD-Display-12-24V-Cigarette-Socket-Lighter-UK/112958123128

I've just ordered another one as a voltage readout on the go is quite useful as you can tell at a glance the health of the charging system.
Also if you plug a gadget in to charge it switches to current to tell you how 'thirsty' the gadget is, and as a bonus you can charge stuff up with it

Thanks for all the responses.

So initially when you turn the key all the lights come on, on the dash, and then when the engine starts they all go out. Then all the lights come back on again and the audible buzzer/alarm kicks in.

The engine seems to be running fine, but the fan is kicking in remarkably quickly, and it was definitely running hot the other day as I could feel the heat warming me up from underneath.

I have experienced the all lights and the buzzer/alarm come on once before (about 5 years ago) and I'd lost some fluid then too. After topping it up it was fine again. I got the engine pressure tested and the antifreeze flushed and refilled, and it's been fine ever since.

I'll check the fuses and alternator tonight/tomorrow. I feel like it is more cooling related than electrical as the fan is kicking in when I've never heard it before. My worry is that the engine may have got too hot.

I've ordered up the cigarette lighter voltage indicator as it sounds rather useful.

The most common cause of overheating is the viscous fan coupling wearing out - you can get new bosses for them on eBay - no idea how reliable they are. Perhaps worth paying Toyota for one or making sure you get a good make.
If it still gets too hot you may need a new radiator.

Between starting and the lights buzz how long is it?

Try a multimeter across the battery terminals and measure the voltage for:
1. Before starting
2. After starting
3. After a bit longer running

and verify that 3) is nicely above 1).

The heat and the warnings may be connected but I can't think how, usually people manage to cook their engines without any warnings going off.
The buzzing is interesting - is it the same buzzing you get for leaving the key in with the door open etc? Or is it the 'lights left on' buzzing?

BTW the dashboard buzzer is (according to that diagram anyway) connected to the fuel filter 'water contamination' warning light switch, so you may want to change the diesel fuel filter as a precaution. Remember to bleed/fill the new filter with the primer pump before connecting it back to the injector pump. There is a water drain at the base too BTW.

Thanks GPW, brilliantly helpful as always. Much appreciated.

It's a space of a couple of seconds max between starting the engine and the lights and buzzer coming on. The sound is the same pitch as the 'you've left the key in the lock', except it is a continuous sound.

If the viscous fan coupling wears out, would the fan still be working, as it is still running fine. Well, i say running fine I've never heard it kick in before so it's a new sound to me.

Where abouts is the fuel filter and I'll see if any water drains out from the water drain bit.

Just off to find my multimeter now...

I'm having the devils own job of finding the viscous fan coupling on toyodiy. Any ideas on a part number for the LH119V chassis?

May be worth asking the suppliers to see if it fits your van:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=hiace+viscous+fan&_sacat=0
Note sure what makes are best but there has been the odd case of people getting a dud new one of forums.
Get a quote from Toyota first and ask them the part number if possible too...

Also you can 'fix' them too.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/replacing-original-fan-clutch-oil.209453/

Brilliant. Thanks GPW.

I went out and checked all the fuses today and they're fine. Started the van up after two days of it being sat still (man do I miss driving it) and the fan kicked straight in, but I'm not sure if it does on normal starting anyway.

I managed to find the part number for the viscous fan coupling. The name on toyodiy is helpfully "COUPLING ASSY, FLUID" so no wonder I couldn't find it the other night! Thankfully the part seems to be available easily off ebay in the UK.

Van's off to the garage tomorrow so I have part numbers for fan coupling, and water pump (just in case it's that causing the issues) as they sometimes have trouble finding parts as it's the 2.8.

toldsimply wrote:

the fan kicked straight in

There are two fans - which one kicked straight in?

If it was the electric one on a cold engine the sensor may be faulty. If should only run when hot or if you have A/C on.
If it was the viscous one - was it roaring or just spinning slowly?

It was the fan directly behind the main radiator at the front of the engine. I'm thinking that's the viscous one?

toldsimply wrote:

It was the fan directly behind the main radiator at the front of the engine. I'm thinking that's the viscous one?

Yes - if you look at the fan centre (engine OFF!!) you'll see it has fins and a big boss in the middle. When the engine warms up that grips the fan so it changes from merely 'spinning' to 'roaring' - i.e. moving some serious air.

With the engine off and cold you'll be able to move the fan easily by hand. Some people load them with thick oil (see previous links) so they always grip (roar/move air) - you lose MPG that way but it's a little safer.

They are pretty reliable but get a hard usage and do wear out. If you're keeping the van and have your suspicions it's a fairly easy cheap replacement, although you'll need a nice spanner and patience to undo the 4 bolts holding it on.
The top part of the fan shroud has a 10mm bolt toward the alternator side you will be able to reach around to, feel and undo and then it unclips.

So the van was kept at the garage overnight as the lights were still coming back on. They're suspecting potentially worn brushes on the alternator which could be why, when you blip the accelerator, the lights and alarm noise stop.
it could be the overheating and the lights just happened at the same time, so a red herring.
I'm keeping the van long term. I honestly couldn't imagine driving anything else after 6 years of ownership. It's my daily driver and I love it. So I think I'll look into getting a new viscous fan coupling.
Hoping the garage call with some good news, such as a loose connection on the alternator.
Thanks for all your help gpw.

Good stuff.

It could also be the higher temperature in the engine bay made the alternator unhappy sooner, it's going to be brushes or/and the regulator/rectifier pack - all easy to solve.

How many km on it (sorry if you already posted this), just trying to get a handle on the lifetime of alternators

BTW as another thought about your 20 minute run and then stopping issues, you may want to check the petrol in the fuel tank didn't upset any breather valve - if you drive it for the 20 minutes and it stops - nip out and undo the filler cap to see if there is a whoosh - could be the tank can no longer breath.

Also try siphoning some fuel from the fuel primer pump end to see if the fuel can get through OK.
HTH!

The van has 154,000 miles on the clock. Hoping to get the van back today.

So prior to the right alternator arriving (the previous order had the wrong 3 pin connector) the error lights and buzzer on the dash stopped coming on. The van had fixed itself! Hurrah! Knowing that I'm keeping the van long-term I thought if it is a dodgy alternator I may as well get it fixed.
So, new alternator in and I'm not hearing the van coming on upon startup which is great. However after start up the lights and buzzer are coming back on as before. If I blip the accelerator they go out quicker, or they go off after a short time if I don't touch the accelerator. What the blazes!
Hoping the van will fix itself again as it's a bit irritating. Answers on a postcard to this address!

I meant fan coming on upon startup!

Did you check the water trap in the fuel filter?
I think that's the only sensor that operates the buzzer.

If there's no water in the filter I think you're looking at a loose connection from the alternator 'I'm running' signal to the instrument cluster. Also check the engine earth straps and maybe clean, grease and re-connect them.

I haven't yet. Where is the water trap for the fuel filter? I was scratching my head looking in the engine bay the other day wondering what it would look like.

The fuel primer pump is next to the power steering pot, right at the top nearby for easy access.

Underneath is the canister fuel filter itself, and right on the bottom is a white plastic 'cap' with wires for the water sensor. In the middle of the plastic 'cap' is a small low profile tap that you undo to let the water drip out.

You may wish to use a mirror, a jar and perhaps take a photo as the tap is quite difficult to see.

Ah, that's what that bit is! Brilliant. Will have a play at the weekend, as it were. Thank you for your help as always GPW, you really know your stuff.

toldsimply wrote:

Ah, that's what that bit is!  Brilliant.  Will have a play at the weekend, as it were.  Thank you for your help as always GPW, you really know your stuff.

Thanks, I just seem to have to learn about things, the original idea of getting a Toyota was that it would take care of itself LOL.

Recently I found my tank filter was clogged by some diesel bug, which lives on water and the bio-diesel in modern diesel. If you suspect it or you store your van for a while make sure you add some biocide. Here's a good article:

https://www.pbo.co.uk/gear/12-diesel-bug-treatments-tested-43353

I've bought some 'HYDRA Fuelplus Multi-Biocide' (not in that test I don't think) for the initial safeguard and will use it during the next few months to make sure it doesn't come back. I suspect mine grew last summer as it rested in the garage, gets quite warm in there.

I've had 6 years of trouble free motoring so I suppose the van is allowed a little bit of a wobble.

So I opened the tap at the weekend, and there was no water just diesel. The lights are still going off after start up, although sometimes they're only there for a moment and other days they keep going.

I had no idea you could get a bug in diesel. I'll look into that. My van gets used everyday, but it's only doing short runs to my office, which is never good for a diesel.