Starting Problems - spill control valve / fuel shutoff?

First post here, but I haven't found much discussion regarding the spill control valve -hoping someone out there might be able to shed some light...

A couple of months ago, I began having intermittent starting problems. Cold starts fired every time once the glow plugs warmed up, but as the engine got warm, restarting became difficult. When this would happen, I could still get the engine to fire after a dozen or so attempts at most. Then eventually it stopped starting altogether. The battery was cranking, the engine was turning over, but nothing beyond that. Moreover, it sounds like the starter kicks out after a few cranks, and you can just hear the gears whiring away.

So after pouring through the forum, I decided it must be the starter relay or the contacts. Replaced the relay, rebuilt the starter with new contacts and plunger, but still no change in symptoms....

Then yesterday I had a breakthrough... Disconnected the harness leading to the spill control valve and ran 12v straight from the battery. Van fired on the first crank, but the engine began running away, so we immediately shut it back down... So now I'm looking at a fuel/ electrical issue...? As far as I can tell, the control valve is functioning, but it's not getting power/signal to open during ignition. Is anyone familiar with what relay controls the spill control valve? Is it possible it's an ECU/ leaky capacitor issue?

It's worth noting that while the van was running, it did so like a top. No issues whatsoever with engine shut down, sputtering, acceleration etc. However, about a month before the starting troubles began, I replaced oil, fuel and air filters. I've since double checked the fuel filter for any leaks and haven't found anything. Any insights or leads would be greatly appreciated.

Hi, friend.
The first thing to do is check the wires from the engine to the computer.
Then check your computer. Most often, capacitors die on a computer. Any master can solder them.
What engine do you have in your car?

Running a 96' KZH116 with a 1KZ-TE - very few electronics as I was hoping to avoid these types of issues but suppose that's part of the fun

Will break into the computer this afternoon and look for any obvious leakage or poor connections.

So a bit of an update: I pulled all the relays behind the glove box. There were four deep in protective rubber boots, the last of which were a real pain to disconnect and remove without the hands of a five year old. No labeling to know what's what, but they all tested functional. I can't know for certain, but I can only assume they have to be the glow plug sub relay, and spill control valve among others. If not I can't fathom where they are hiding as I've got the entire van torn apart. I also peaked at the computer to make sure there were no obvious signs of leakage from the capacitors.





Meanwhile, I decided to circle back around to the starter. While I had initially tested the bendix when I replaced the contacts, I admittedly stripped one of the philips screws on the back of the starter and decided it wasn't worth pursing further....until now. After an hour or so of grinding, smashing and lubricating, finally got the screw out (ordering a JIS screwdriver for next time). Sure enough, the bendix was no good. Found an excellent YouTube video on replacing the denso bendix -likely would have saved me a stripped screw if I had watched it before disassembly. Found another rebuild kit online that included the clutch, and upon installing the van fired right up!!

After that, the van ran flawlessly for four days. Glow plugs functioned properly, startups were consistent and smooth. I could drive the van to normal operating temperature, kill the engine and fire it right back up. Then this weekend, I went out for a weekend drive and didn't make it a mile down the road before the van died. Seems the engine stopped getting gas and died, shortly after which the dash lights came on. Tried re-starting and engine would crank but wasn't turning over. After five minutes or so, I was able to get the engine started again, and decided to make haste for the gas station a mile down the road. Made it 3/4 of the way there, then same thing; engine dies, followed by the dash lights coming on 5+ seconds later. Now it won't start at all.



Can't help but suspecting I've got an electrical problem. All the symptoms that derived from the bad bendix have disappeared, now it once again seems like the issue is fuel delivery. When I turn the key without starting, I am no longer getting my glow plug light, nor an audible click of the relay after 15 seconds. I'm also not getting a check engine light (again, just with the key in the on position - pictured above). I previously connected the terminals on the OBD port to get a manual readout on the check engine light, but now this has no effect.

I found a shop in town that is willing to re-cap the ECU. They confirmed that there was no visual signs of fouled capacitors, but I'm having them all replaced anyway. I figure it needs to be done, and I need to eliminate the possibility. Any other ideas what might prevent fuel delivery, and/or prevent the check engine light from operating properly?

Hi,

if you trawl through this: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eRUkCFjMLmHrfZ7lkwd0MfLwfvBiasIU/view

i think the relay for the glow plugs may be behind the dash or next to the driver's fusebox.

Hello.

These vans don’t have a lot of electrics compared to a modern vehicle, but there’s enough to be a problem when conditions allow.

Take a look at the electrical manual on Hiacesoutheast. It might not be bob-on but I think those fuses and relays around the HVAC are for A/C, cooling fans and front blower. On my van, the starter motor relay (starter solenoid as we call it) is also in a similar area (but it’s quite different) and the pre-heat is in the LH B pillar. That might also be where your ECU is, I don’t have an ECU.

I’ve no experience with the spill control valve and reluctant to lead you down rabbit holes but I’d also, as a matter of course, check earths (wires and bond points), fuel cut off valve (presume yours in on the pump) and battery leads and clamps (for shorts). I had an issue with the latter that prevented starting and I serviced my starter motor. The posts / contacts were badly worn but the problem was elsewhere, in the second set of leads so the solenoid was clicking but the motor wasn’t turning.

Sorry not to be definitive but that’s the thing with intermittent problems. The Hiacesoutheast electrical manual also shows the full suite of fuses and other relays. I presume you’ve checked them all?

Good luck!!

Unfortunately none of the electrical diagrams in the electrical manual from hiacesoutheast match my van at all. While it's a 96' it shares body components from pre 93'. There's no power anything -locks, windows, no moon roofs etc. More of a commercial people mover I suppose.



The starter relay, and glow plug fuse are located right next to the battery. I have yet to see another setup like this (really convenient!!). The ECU is indeed located in the LH B pillar, but there are no relays to be found there, just wiring harnesses. Still waiting on the repair shop to finish replacing the capacitors.



Otherwise the remainder of the primary relays and fuses are located in three different bays below the dash, labeled "A," "B," and "C."



With the dash taken apart, I found a couple more relays behind the steering column for the wipers, but all the other relays I see are in rubber boots clustered behind the glove box. Including the stand alone relay that sits on the blower, I count 5 un-marked relays. The AC relay is marked in one of those other boxes, so I know that's accounted for. If these aren't the spill control and after glow relays then I'm puzzled what they do go to....

To the best of my knowledge, the spill control valve and fuel shutoff seem to be one in the same. In most all of the forums I've been in though, especially for land cruisers, they always refer to the spill control valve (at least with respect to the 1kz-te). I'm guessing there is a subtle difference in function that is beyond me? Whatever you call it, the valve has been suspect from the start. But it seems to be functional, just not getting the proper signal to open. At least that's my suspicion. I'm eager to see what affect the refurbished computer has

Will check the grounds in the mean time. I know of one set that mounts near the fuel filter, anybody know where to look for others?

Have you put your chassis number in to https://toyota.epc-data.com/regius_ace/ ? That may show you what relays you have and possibly give you an idea where they may be - though it can be a bit of a pain going though the various links.

My money is on capacitor failure in your 89661-26161 ECU.

Capacitor plague from the 1990's affected all sorts of electronic equipment, all down to a stolen formula. Even older "brand new", on the shelf ECU's are affected.

Failing capacitors/burnt tracks are also known to then affect one of the resistors as well...I think the write-up on that is on this forum also....but that might the different ECU on the 4WD model.

If searching this forum, you will get better search results by using google advanced search in the domain https://hiace-super-custom.forumotion.com/

So a bit of an update: took nearly two weeks to get my computer back from the shop as they mis-ordered one of the caps. GPW's cap list here was very helpful in sorting it out. Sure enough they found a bad capacitor that was leaking down one of the legs; but all signs of damage were not visible until the cap had been removed.

With the computer plugged back in, the van fired right up, then died instantly. Started again, ran a little longer then died again. This pattern continued for five minutes or so, at which point it seemed to be reliably running. Was able to drive around the county at speed and temp without issue. But then the next day same type of issues.

On a whim I decided to drive it a couple hours south for a job; at first when I got going, I didn't make it a mile or two down the road before it died half a dozen times. The last time it died, I was able to down shift and roll start the engine right back up. From there it ran great for two hours straight going down the highway without issue. The destination had us winding the last few miles on two-track where I was just giving it enough gas in first to keep the engine from dying -hill climbs and all, no problems. When we arrived I hopped out and left it idling while I helped the boss back the trailer in. When I was done, I jumped back in the van and as I started taking off from idle, it died!

So a few observations.... (1)I no longer have any starting problems. The van fires up more reliably than it has in over 6 months. Even when it dies it quick succession, starting is not a problem. (2) I suspect the lack of check engine light (and also glow plug) were tied to my computer failure. When the computer was in the shop, I tried powering on the van as I was working on putting in a new head unit. My dashboard lights all came on except for check engine and glow plugs -identical to the previous image I posted when the computer with bad caps was still connected. These lights both now reliably come on every time I turn the key. (3) The van seems to die at speeds below 60kmh and at lower rpm. After the first day the computer went in, it has not died while idling, only while driving. Leaving a parking lot seems to be perfect scenario for this. Inclines have no affect. No dash lights are thrown when it dies, usually they come on 10 -15s after the engine stops.

Wondering if something could have gotten clogged while van was sitting? Water in the diesel? Has anyone experienced anything like this after re-capping their computer? I appreciate all the responses and tips. You all are keeping me going!!!

Sounds so much like an air in fuel problem or at least fuel starvation, first eliminate this by placing fuel return pipe in a clear jar the fuel flow is quite high or should be blip the throttle to test at various speeds any air will be seen also check tank breather pipe it has a foam filter easily clogged with dust and there is an in tank strainer at the pick up , my strainer was 95% blocked after 26 years . Air in fuel is often found as these engines pull fuel all the way to the IP . I have had all these problems and more but now despite running on Used Vedge Oil I can claim to be 100% reliable.

Can you point me in the direction of the foam filter on the breather pipe? Do you need to drop the gas tank to access it? Also would love to hear more about your vedge conversion if you have a write up anywhere....

Hello Bluheheron

I think JT69’s suggestions are sound. If you have reliable engine compression and timing, a diesel engine ‘should’ run well. Hopefully you’ve sorted your electrical gremlins but when I read your catch-up post I thought of fuel starvation / air in fuel, too.

I’ve had a problem in the past with the fuel filter priming pump, too. It was sucking in air. As JT69 points out fuel is drawn all the way from the tank to the pump under low pressure pull so if air has an opportunity to get sucked in, it will. The return is positive pressure.

I think the fuel pump runs at pump rotation speed and on overrun almost all of the fuel goes back to the tank. On full power most is consumed and little is returned. Fuel also cools and lubricates the pump so air in fuel can be bad.

This post:
https://hiace-super-custom.forumotion.com/t4085-fuel-line-t-in-diesel-heater#25641
shows the air breather (it’s the ‘What’s this?’).

If blocked fuel tank pressure won’t equilibrate and you’ll get the whoosh sound when you open the filler cap, but this is just one part of the fuel supply chain of things that can go slightly wrong and cause issues like you are experiencing.

In order to find resources and further info (on the fuel system, but for all the systems) take a look at the long post on my show-us-yours section. You might already access these but there might be something there to help.

Cheers.

Haven't noticed a vacuum when opening the fuel cap, but my problems are just infrequent enough that I suspect the problem is only arising when the conditions are just right. With your insights I found and removed the breather check valve - I'm assuming the foam filter mentioned above is inside of that? Anyway to open it up and clean it? Appears to be a sealed unit, so I'm assuming I'll just be ordering a new one....

I assume you now know were the foam filter is , there is loads of info on the internet on WVO , but be aware you will have problems, however the 1kzte engine is one of the best to run on WVO being indirect injection, few points to consider before you contemplate running on veg oil.
1/ is it legal in your country, it is in the UK
2/ Can you store it handle it etc.
3/ Supply of good quality used oil it is no good relying on Ebay
4/ Cold climates long periods below freezing are not good

Any of the above criteria will negate any benefits you achieve.

Well I'm back to the drawing board again. Was able to the keep the van running long enough to make it across the country, but it probably wasn't the best decision I've made lately. While I made it to my destination in the Southwest U.S., the van gave me trouble most the of the way.

Again, my current symptoms are sporadic engine failure. 50% of the time, if I leave the van in gear, it will roll start the engine right back up; the other 50% I coast to a stop and try a variety of methods to get the van started again. The most reliable method has been disconnecting the battery for a while and resetting the ECU.

When the engine dies, no lights are thrown until I shift back into neutral. Then all my usual sensor lights come on EXCEPT the check engine light. It's clear to me that when the CEL is not lit up, the engine is not getting gas and the van won't start. Thus resetting the computer or turning the ignition off and on a dozen times can usually get the CEL to come back on, at which point the van fires right up and down the road I go.

So in agreement with the previous posts, I think the immediate cause is fuel starvation. But unfortunately I think it is derived from some electrical gremlin still stalking the van. Since my last post, I've put in a new fuel filter primer, new tank breather filter, all new relays.

I've already had the capacitors replaced on the ECU, but now I'm considering taking it to a different shop for a secondary look.

Any other ideas out there? Would also be curious if anyone has insight into the ECU self test.

We had similar problems but not exactly the same with our 1kzte, the faulty caps do through up all sorts of strange problems. We were fortunate with a very helpful techi guy who fitted new caps and it cured all problems, but to test an ECU was not possible the only way to be sure would be to borrow a known good one and run the van for a while. Then to test the fuel system first step with engine running put the fuel return pipe in clear container there should be about 1/4 to 1/2 ltr per min returning to the tank on idle there should be more as you increase RPM with little or no air bubbles. If you have fuel starvation start at the tank pick up ours was 95% blocked this can be accessed with out removing the tank (hatch in floor above tank). Next pump on filter head with pipe removed to test. Then if that is ok it gets interesting , there is a filter under the IP pump inlet banjo , ours was full of crap after 26 years not surprising then another under the fuel solenoid this is not fun but possible. There is a good vid on you tube but they said there is one under the fuel return banjo this a pressure relieve do not bother with it.
PS after all this we still have fuel starvation slightly at sustained high revs, but we use WVO that is legal in the UK (in our 5th year of WVO now) had the IP pump of and tested by technician and they found no faults, any questions PM me good luck.

Really appreciate all your wisdom JT69.... While I know the ECU can't be truly tested, I'm at least hoping to be able to have it hooked up to an oscilloscope to the test the connections and measure values...? Do you think it's possible to have a mechanical fuel blockage that would prevent the ECU from passing its self test? Last time I had the van running I checked the return line for flow rate and air bubbles, and it seemed fine on both accounts.

This sounds like an absolute nightmare. I'm going through an odd issue or two that's been difficult to diagnose but this is another level. From the way you describe what you've tried and how the lights behave, it would suggest the ECU or it's wiring.

Can I suggest a long-shot? One of the issues I had was it not starting after it had been up to running temperature - and then cooled down for about 60 minutes. There was spark and fuel (it's a petrol one) so most googling brought up fuel evaporation from engine heat near the injectors.

But at the same time I managed to get hold of one of those TOYOBD1 devices and could monitor sensors and the the ECU to a degree while driving and worked out the ECU was behaving as it the coolant temp was cold and so it was pumping in much more petrol than it should and flooding the engine.

These devices are a bit like hens' teeth. But the guy does occasionally make new ones and there's a 'used' market too. If you had one, you might be able to monitor the ECU and engine as it dies. Fingers crossed you will have the Toyota OBD1 diagnostics port on your van.

There is also a site about using an Arduino DIY computer chipset to build a reader that will work with the OBD1 diagnostics and display via the Torque app. I was about to do this before I found someone selling the TOYOBD1.

It seems I'm getting to the point where long shots may be called for. But I suppose I'm in it for the long haul. I'm gonna get this van running if it's the last thing I do. Any tips for tracking down a used toyobd1 -or more information on the DIY Arduino setup?

The two facebook groups for the TOYOBD1 are:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1505898572959292

and

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1711148342392785

There are links to the Arduino thing in the second link too. Good luck.

I'd suggest posting in the buy/sell group and maybe suggest 'renting' one for a few weeks too - maybe someone near you would be up for helping out?

I was wondering if you've run diagnostics in 'test' mode? I believe this runs a few more tests and also records intermittent failures. It may catch a loose connection or indicate if the ECU is having issues. where normal mode may miss them.

If you get hold of the 1KZ-TE manual from Hiace Southwest, it's in section DI-5.

Hadn't realized there was a separate diagnosis mode beyond the "normal" one, thank you for the recommendation....

Seems I'm caught in a catch 22. I was able to get the CEL to come on yesterday, initiating the test mode and then fired up the van. Almost immediately it died and could not get the CEL to come back on. So while the van "malfunctioned" when in test mode, I was then unable to read any of the codes afterwards.

This morning was just the opposite. Initiated test mode, fired up the van, but it seem to run and idle fine for 10 minutes, at which point I shut off the engine. With the CEL light still functioning I was then able to read out the error codes... which reported back that all systems were operational.

Am I understanding the manual correctly that you connect TE2 and E1 for the test drive, after which you shut down the engine, disconnect TE2 and connect TE1 and E1? Or are you leaving TE2 connected and adding a second jumper between the later two?

Hi - there are some instructions here (I can't find it in the manuals I have right now) - but when using test mode, you must NOT turn the ignition off - connect TE1 and E1 and looks for flashes.

https://uktoyotaestimasite.tripod.com/obdcodes.htm