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my97sc



Number of posts : 1
Home City : warwick-qld
Model and year : 97 hiace s/c awd import
Registration date : 2016-02-02

PostSubject: cruise control   Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:59 am

newbie in warwick. has anyone added cruise control to 1997 sc ? what did you fit and how succesful was it?
thinking of fitting one. sick of sore leg.sore kne and pain in the trying to hold constant speed.
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JT69
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Number of posts : 175
Home City : Holmfirth Huddersfield Yorks
Model and year : 1996 3ltr turbo LWB super custom sat nav cruise fitted
Now running on veg oil
Registration date : 2016-12-05

PostSubject: Re: cruise control   Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:34 pm

Fitted cruise on my SC old type works on vacuum and picks up speed signal from back of dashboard look on Ebay.
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GPW
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Number of posts : 728
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: cruise control   Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:54 pm

johntidmarsh wrote:
Fitted cruise on my SC old type works on vacuum and picks up speed signal from back of dashboard look on Ebay.

I had a look on eBay and couldn't find anything - was yours new or second hand? Roughly how much? Was it specifically for the HiAce?

Would you be able to dig out the details of yours? (Make + Model?)

Thanks in advance!
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JT69
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Number of posts : 175
Home City : Holmfirth Huddersfield Yorks
Model and year : 1996 3ltr turbo LWB super custom sat nav cruise fitted
Now running on veg oil
Registration date : 2016-12-05

PostSubject: Re: cruise control   Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:38 pm

SC cruise control I used a Command AP 60 from Motoquipe Adelaide Aus through Ebay good firm no hassle several models available some with dash button pad some with column sticks I use cheapest with buttons all are for old type cable throttle petrol or diesel vacuum powered, works spot on not touched it since fitting.
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GPW
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Number of posts : 728
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: cruise control   Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:48 pm

johntidmarsh wrote:
SC cruise control I used a Command AP 60 from Motoquipe Adelaide Aus through Ebay good firm no hassle several models available some with dash button pad some with column sticks I use cheapest with buttons all are for old type cable throttle petrol or diesel vacuum powered, works spot on not touched it since fitting.  

Wow - thanks for that, I wasn't expecting such a useful and buyable item - I can see I'll have to order one in the very near term. Excellent!! I'm thinking dash pad is the way to go for me as there's lots of blank space for that and it's easier and more visible.
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GPW
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Number of posts : 728
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: cruise control   Sun May 27, 2018 4:46 pm

Fitting mine now, where did you end up fitting the actuator box and did you end up trimming the cable at all?

JT69 wrote:
SC cruise control I used a Command AP 60 from Motoquipe Adelaide Aus through Ebay good firm no hassle several models available some with dash button pad some with column sticks I use cheapest with buttons all are for old type cable throttle petrol or diesel vacuum powered, works spot on not touched it since fitting.  
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JT69
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Number of posts : 175
Home City : Holmfirth Huddersfield Yorks
Model and year : 1996 3ltr turbo LWB super custom sat nav cruise fitted
Now running on veg oil
Registration date : 2016-12-05

PostSubject: Re: cruise control   Sun May 27, 2018 9:11 pm

The electronics box fits nicely behind the glove box the wires fed down the center under carpet to vacuum actuator fixed above fan housing, only just room for it fix wires and vac tube away from fan, feed throttle cable in circular way round engine bay to line up with throttle lever, just done a 1000 mile trip to Oban cruise very useful.
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GPW
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Number of posts : 728
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: cruise control   Sun May 27, 2018 11:16 pm

JT69 wrote:
The electronics box fits nicely behind the glove box the wires  fed down the center under carpet to vacuum actuator fixed above fan housing, only just room for it fix wires and vac tube away from fan, feed throttle cable in circular way round engine bay to line up with throttle lever, just done a 1000 mile trip to Oban cruise very useful.

I see; So the actuator lives in the engine bay just above the main radiator and viscous fan housing?
Do you recall if the actuator is near the power steering pot of nearer the AC side under the drivers seat?
What is it bolted to?

I couldn't find a way to make mine fit in there but I'll have another look I'm also looking at fitting it in the centre console in front of the shift lever next to the ECT computer. There is a bay under there that the ECT slides into that I think the Toyota cruise control ECU also fits. My glovebox area is already full of crossovers so I don't think I can put mine there lol.
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JT69
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Number of posts : 175
Home City : Holmfirth Huddersfield Yorks
Model and year : 1996 3ltr turbo LWB super custom sat nav cruise fitted
Now running on veg oil
Registration date : 2016-12-05

PostSubject: Re: cruise control   Mon May 28, 2018 7:41 pm

Should be room behind glove box for that small box , picture of vac actuator in my engine bay but not sure how to send it.
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GPW
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Number of posts : 728
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: cruise control   Mon May 28, 2018 9:19 pm

For pics go to www.postimage.org and upload it there, it would be very interesting to see it.

I decided I was too paranoid about it falling off into the fan to mount it above the fan (plus I couldn't work out what to mount it to) and spent ages poking around working out where I could drill a hole from the cabin to the engine bay without going through the radiator etc.

Then I noticed that Toyota had put in an extra double sized gasket for the gear shift - I think this gasket must be where the official Toyota cruise lives as the unused double clips on the throttle cable all seem to lead that way.

So I ended up drilling holes in the spare bit of rubber, drilled out the farthest bracket hole from the actuator to 8mm (without even having to move the bracket!) and bolted the actuator into a spare 8mm hole that Toyota had conveniently put in for me (see picture - note the Autobox ECT is in the metal shelf there too).
You can see the actuator cable heads straight into the rubber just below the vacuum line and both pipes easily swing around the radiator. The cable is a little too short to follow the predicted path of the Toyota cruise but it's perfectly usable, the vacuum pipe they send however is about 50cm too short so I'll buy a longer one tomorrow for that.



The cruise ECU will be slotted into the shelf next to the ECT (there's actually a free slot there I think was used for Toyota's cruise ECU when fitted) and if I connect the blue cruise ECU wire to the Violet/White wire going into the ECT I think I will get the buffered speedo signal from the speedo. I'll check that with a meter before a splice into the cable first though!

So apart from the short vacuum hose in the kit and the fact the AP60B cable could be around 6" longer it fits very well in the Hiace now Very Happy. Well at least that bit does...
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JT69
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Number of posts : 175
Home City : Holmfirth Huddersfield Yorks
Model and year : 1996 3ltr turbo LWB super custom sat nav cruise fitted
Now running on veg oil
Registration date : 2016-12-05

PostSubject: Re: cruise control   Tue May 29, 2018 8:50 am

https://postimg.cc/image/o6ekqrnt7/ As usual your approach is much more belt and braces than mine .
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GPW
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Number of posts : 728
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: cruise control   Tue May 29, 2018 9:53 am

Interesting, I think that's the only space in the engine bay, ironic we have a van but it's so tight in there!!

When you load an image into postimage it gives you links you can paste directly into the forum, when you get used to it postimage will also give you lists of thumbnails etc for no effort. Thanks for posting the pic, it's worth a 1000 words as I test fitted mine all over the place but could never quite get a space. If you get a chance a photo of where it ties into the throttle linkage would be instructive.

Thanks for the compliment Very Happy. For me the belt and braces I worry about are:

1) The thickness of the (walls of the) autobox coolant tubes that go through the main radiator.
2) The condition of the oil and filter in the autobox
3) The functionality of the engine coolant system

as these are the 'van killers', everything else is far more relaxing for me LOL.

BTW I was reading that 1996 was the year that the capacitor faults were stopped so 1996 we don't need to worry about those. None of the ones I changed out had leaked which was encouraging.

As I'm getting mine ready for a trip I also discovered Wilko's 4 draw units that fit the Hiace perfectly:
http://www.wilko.com/plastic-storage/wilko-storage-unit-4-drawer-assorted/invt/0188878
so it looks just like a campervan inside now, conversion cost £15 Very Happy
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JT69
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Number of posts : 175
Home City : Holmfirth Huddersfield Yorks
Model and year : 1996 3ltr turbo LWB super custom sat nav cruise fitted
Now running on veg oil
Registration date : 2016-12-05

PostSubject: Re: cruise control   Tue May 29, 2018 12:38 pm

Hi GPW on my van the cooling pipes do not go through the rad it has separate cooler, the filter in the gearbox is not a filter its just a strainer had one out of my Landcruiser waste of time and effort clean as a whistle 160,000 miles, just drain fluid and replace with same amount every 25,000 or when it changes to cloudy pink works wonders, as for coolant change regularly dependent on colour and mileage I fitted extra digital temp gauge to keep an eye on that pesky thermostat very hard to change it. The temp is interesting to watch runs normally at 80c when towing (car on trailer) goes up to 85/90c on hills got 108c and second fan cuts in and stops it going higher. The gauge on the dash hardly moves from normal.
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GPW
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Number of posts : 728
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: cruise control   Tue May 29, 2018 8:01 pm

Encouraging to know about the strainer, my autobox oil was brown (completely knackered) so I have one partial change in there already and need to do a few more trips before the next partial change.

Any idea where your external transmission cooler came from and how big it is? I'd feel much more comfortable with an external cooler on there!!

The temperature issue is interesting - so I can't rely on the gauge at all. Too high and it's a blown head gasket so I want to add a gauge like yours ASAP, what should I be searching for - have you a make and model - would be super useful to know.
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GPW
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Number of posts : 728
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: cruise control   Tue May 29, 2018 10:09 pm

Had a long look of eBay for temperature gauges, lots available but only one or two with a warning lamp like this one:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-52mm-UNIVERSAL-DIGITAL-LED-WATER-TEMP-TEMPERATURE-GAUGE-METER-CAR-BLACK-UK/263547927237

Then I looked at the wiring diagram and the back of my gauges again, the diagram shows the sensor as a simple temperature dependent resistor, the gauge only has B+, Ground and Sens in.



Which is basically the three screws on the RHS with T marked (F is the fuel gauge).

So I thought that the action you describe must be due to a zener diode in the gauge itself - a zener will allow something to reach a voltage and then gradually clamp it in a exponential way: hence suppressing all those alarming temperatures that the good Toyota didn't want to worry their owners with. Porsche does the same IIRC.

I then decided that someone else must have also thought about modifying these gauges and after a short internet search came up with this link:

http://toyotasurf.asn.au/techsite/tempgauge.htm

which is a highly detailed explanation of someone removing the zener and replacing it with a resistor. Most interesting as I have to remove the cluster anyway to find my intermittent tacho fault and to check the speedo sense wire is the right one.

So I plan now to test the temperature gauge with a stable 12V input and a variable resistor to get the needle to point to a low (un-molested) value, whip out the zener and try various values to see what I get.
Real calibration may be possible if I get the sensor out of the engine  (if I can find it!!) as I can then use some hot water to find out the resistance at 100C and room temperature so I can simulate temperatures as I fiddle with resistor values.

If I was super keen I could have a super-bright red LED come on at 100C too but I don't think I have time for that just yet, I'll see what happens when I experiment. I suppose the zener with some diodes in series driving the base of an NPN transistor or Darlington pair driving the LED via a resistor might do a good enough job. It's a faff but so much easier than fitting a new head.

Other mod links:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/93-97-coolant-temperature-gauge-modification.64252/
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JT69
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Number of posts : 175
Home City : Holmfirth Huddersfield Yorks
Model and year : 1996 3ltr turbo LWB super custom sat nav cruise fitted
Now running on veg oil
Registration date : 2016-12-05

PostSubject: Re: cruise control   Wed May 30, 2018 7:54 am

You are spot on with the gearbox oil the oil cooler is about 12" square sits in front of main rad and is original equipment from new the temp gauge is exactly the one I fitted very sensitive a red warning comes on at 100c fitted a sensor housing in top hose near filler cap, have seen all the info on adapting dash gauge but not worth the hassle aux gauge more accurate think the existing sensor is just below the filler cap.
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GPW
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Number of posts : 728
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: cruise control   Wed May 30, 2018 8:25 am

JT69 wrote:
You are spot on with the gearbox oil the oil cooler is about 12" square sits in front of main rad and is original equipment from new the temp gauge is exactly the one I fitted very sensitive a red warning comes on at 100c fitted a sensor housing in top hose near filler cap, have seen all the info on adapting dash gauge but not worth the hassle aux gauge more accurate think the existing sensor is just below the filler cap.  

A separate OE cooler in front of the main rad, interesting. Probably not in time for this trip but perhaps in the winter I'll look at installing that.

The digital gauge is cheap enough so I may get one anyway, nice to see  digital readout too.

I was reading about the common/infamous issue of 1KZ-TE head gasket failures in warmer climates like South Africa (i.e. like Spain on a very hot day!) and it turns out that the thermostat is on the return side of the radiator, so it's effectively managing the radiator temperature rather than the engine temperature. The newer D4D engine appears to be the same.

But... the reliable Peugeot 1.9TD engine has the thermostat right on top next to the top hose as I'd expect. The 1KZ-TE shares the design of a thermostat on the return side with that of the Porsche 996 and 997 engines, another class of engine infamous for overheating with consequental bore deformation + scoring with the odd head cylinder wall break and some gasket failures thrown in. A hard drive ending at a traffic light stop gives these porsches a good heat soak and a hard pull-away scores the now chocolate like bores because the thermostat on the return side doesn't know there's a problem...

I've been scouring the internet for information about why an engineer would choose to put a thermostat on the return side but not much luck yet, the most info I found is here:
https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hcc/2005/02/Some-Like-It-Hot/1281095.html
but he only brushes against the subject.

When I change the cambelt (and therefore waterpump) this winter I'm tempted to remove the return thermostat entirely and fit one in the top of the engine like on the Peugeot, the top hose is looking good for an inline one if I can find such a thing from the kitcar world. With a decent gauge this would be very instructive to see how the engine temperature stabilised as I'd imagine it would be significantly more stable and of course react much faster to hills.
E.g:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Replacement-Billet-In-line-Thermostat/372315184201
or
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rover-MG-75-TDCI-Remote-Thermostat-kit-EASY-FIX-FOR-BMW-DIESEL-ENGINE/322994580107
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rover-75-MG-ZT-Diesel-CDTi-Inline-Thermostat-Kit-With-Instructions-86-Degrees/222986856020

In the meantime I can only guess why the thermostat is on the return side - can you think of any advantages?
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GPW
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Number of posts : 728
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: cruise control   Wed May 30, 2018 10:38 am

So the cooling research continues:
https://www.landcruiserclub.net/community/threads/cooling-the-1kz-te-motor.130304/

working down the chain from damped gauges to the odd choice of Toyota to put the thermostat on the inlet side of the engine (thus wonderfully regulating the temperature of the radiators..) I was looking at the opening temperature of replacement top-hose thermostats.

It seems that Rover MG ZT guys are the main ones playing with thermostats. There's a Renault method of simply squashing a thermostat into the hose which looks quite cool:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Replacement-Thermostat-RENAULT-SUPER-5-1-1-89-90/332447788710

and I think is the same thermostat re-marketed as an MG ZT fix.

Temperatures:
The opening temp is 89C. The opening temp of the Peugeot 1.9 (a popular reliable diesel) is 83C.

The actual running temperature of the 1KZ-TE is I suspect highly variable which is why Toyota damped the gauge. The parallels of the Porsche 996/997 damped gauge of their unreliable, overheating return-thermostat engines is uncanny. It seems a thermostat on the return side is a recipe for a well controlled radiator temperature but a wildly fluctuating engine temperature which then gets 'cured' by a damped gauge so as not to alarm people.

So I wanted to find out the optimum engine temperature and as I had a read of this forum
http://forums.mg-rover.org/mg-zt-rover-75-sponsored-rimmer-bros-90/diesel-engine-running-temperature-365388/

This forum is worth a read for any KH1-TE owner!

I learned the following points:
1. Cars with a thermostat on the outlet have a rock steady temperature even with undamped digital gauges.
2. A higher temperature corresponds with noticeably higher MPG, up to 10mpg being reported.

So it seems that if we can fix the operating temperature at a solid 89-92C (JT69 reports 80C when running normally) we'll benefit from better MPG as well as less heat excursions on hills, overtakes etc.
JT69: Where did you put the sensor for your digital gauge?

The method of the modification would be to drain the coolant, remove the old thermostat entirely and add a new thermostat in the conveniently sited top-hose (which incidentally is just after both the ECU and gauge engine temperature sensors), then refill and bleed.
Those sensors are not next to the top-hose by coincidence, that point really represents the true engine/head temperature that the ECU uses to fuel the engine so logically that's where the temperature regulation also needs to be.

Also if I drain the coolant I can remove the gauge sensor and see the resistance in boiling water - so the dash gauge can be calibrated to work properly. We'll then end up with a more reliable, happier more efficient engine and a heads up about what it's doing. Thoughts?
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JT69
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Number of posts : 175
Home City : Holmfirth Huddersfield Yorks
Model and year : 1996 3ltr turbo LWB super custom sat nav cruise fitted
Now running on veg oil
Registration date : 2016-12-05

PostSubject: Re: cruise control   Wed May 30, 2018 11:00 am

Pic of my cabin the sat nav is a bit OTT but I love it does multi media its Android phone ect would probably do temp gauge as well but beyond me the white box is for temp control's for veg oil running + vac gauge to monitor filter clogging  and  the sat dish on the floor just hooks on roof gutter for TV in the back only place I could stow it. Looks like I have sorted postimg. lol.
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GPW
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Number of posts : 728
Home City : Cambridge, UK
Model and year : Model: KD-KZH100G-MRPGT
Year: 1996
Colour: 4K1
Trim: FN42

Registration date : 2016-07-16

PostSubject: Re: cruise control   Wed May 30, 2018 12:23 pm

JT69 wrote:
Pic of my cabin the sat nav is a bit OTT but I love it does multi media its Android phone ect would probably do temp gauge as well but beyond me the white box is for temp control's for veg oil running + vac gauge to monitor filter clogging  and  the sat dish on the floor just hooks on roof gutter for TV in the back only place I could stow it. Looks like I have sorted postimg. lol.

Brilliant adventure cabin there!! (and good pic posting Smile). I have an electric thermostat shaped like your 3 there I intend to fit for cabin temperature under AC (an MH1210A) so I get climate control in hot weather.

Engine temperature discussion moved to here:
http://hiace-super-custom.forumotion.com/t3430-cooling-the-1kz-te-in-the-hiace-super-custom


Last edited by GPW on Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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