Black smoke... Now the radiator has burst!!

Ok... So going up a mild hill, slowly, definatly not pushing it hard. Was a pop and a wosh... First thing I looked at the oil temp gague, which was normal. I pulled over right away, after 30sec or so, loads of steam from the engine.

Rolled to a near by garrage, thought it was a hose. But they have found the radiator has split at a seam. Luckily there is a local 'specialist' who has fixed it, and will be re-installed on Monday.

The garrage are also going to change the thermostat...

So is it lickley the thermostat is culprit, or is that just a garrage ruse to sell me a part?

Is is possible this is related to over rich mixture? As in previous post?

Could it be just a old / dammaged radiator? Or major overheating issue, allthough I have had a concerned eye on the temp gague, and it never goes past half way / horizontal..

Thoughts?

Thanks!!

Ps stuck in a Swiss truck stop for the weekend!

Shame you're stuck, you coudl start taking people between airports for cash :-)

Hmm, it could just be unlucky. How long have you owned the van, do you know what works been done?

A split radiator is unlikely to be related to overheating, it is "feasible", but its more likely that the radiator was rusting and full of crud, causing it to start to get hot, changing the thermostat is good practice. Again, its not obvious that any of this is linked to the smoking, which i'm sure is a lack of air flow.

I'd say that the stress on the block going up and down hills has probably just brought out the weak areas, if its overly rich it will run hotter, which could have caused the radiator to fail... all suggests a lack of servicing maybe ??

While its off the road, get the air filter out and give a good clean up, this should help?

I had a radiator go before the head gasket popped on an old bmw.Could be cause for concern.Replacing the thermostat is a cheap fix,you could also leave it out just to be sure.

Hey. I've only had the van 2 months, it's a fresh import with 50k on the clock. So I don't have much experiance with it. When I got it I had a general service done, timing belt, fuel oil n air filters, new auto fluid, break pads etc...

Anyway.. Checked the air filter now and it's like new.

I did notice quite a bit of suction from the air in vent when idiling the other day, I.e back of my shirt got sucked against it when standing against it...

All a bit worrying as I plan to be touring with her for a good fer monthes!

Not all bad, the rad gave out that is all. Not likely to have had a chance to cause major damage as you stopped quickly.

The engine will be wanting more air and therefore over fuelling, hence black smoke.

Things will be better when you get it back tomorrow.

...So the guys in Switzerland managed to fix and reinstall the rad, and on we went, all seemed well. Not had a chance to get any injection cleaner yet.

A week later now an i notice a puddle of blue coolant beneath the car, a coupple of minutes after we pulled up after a long drive. Looked inside and a small jet of fluid is coming from the side of the radiator. So it seems the repair job was not good enough, or the rad has goten worse.

Now i since the first blow, ive been looking at the temp gague more than the speedo, and probably the road. And while I have had some hills, and long morotway slogs, it hasent moved a millemeter above 'normal'. We are heavy, 2 people and lots of stuff, but probably not carying more than 250-300kgs, and I have been driving slowly to keep the fuel costs down and enjoy the views.

So im looking at a 2-3 week wait on a new rad, ill probalby get new hoses and thermo while im at it.

But im wondering if there isnt somthing wrong to make the presure in the rad too high even if the temp is ok?

Also, and this is a really odd one... the coolant leaking from the rad is blue greenish. BUT, the liquid in the coolang resiviour, is red brown..... WTF?

Finally, when I got the van, it looks like the presure cap is new, has got a bright yellow sticker saying 'to check level in resivior', in english first and then japaneese. also has 13lbs on it. Is this about right?

Clutching at straws now, but were stuck in Slovenia, till I can DHL the parts to a local garrage, this is costing me a fortune and the way things are going, probably my marrage too!!

Any ideas much appreciated...

The cooling system will run at about 90 - 120 deg, this means it runs at high pressure, which is normal, so when warm it will find a way through any weakness, this in itself isn't a problem with the system, just your rad - have you thought about rad weld, if its just a small hole, this may get you by till you get home??

As for the colour, that doesn't sound right. Old systems that aren't cleaned and changed will turn the fluid red, this is not good, but is a sign that your radiator is not good, its likely rust from the rad, could be that this is heavier and sitting low, but if you have had a fluid flush it seems weird, sure it isn't just the discolouration of the reservoir ???

The cap is fine if thats any consolation.

The guage is normal...(give very rough average/not so accurate)...it will not tell you anything is wrong until too late.

If worried about heat put the heaters on full blast for the long hills

Don't know about the leak colour...is it possible they topped up with different antifreeze without doing a full flush. Not all antifreeze are compatible with each other.

Also the autobox fluid (red... or brown if dirty) is cooled through the rad...I'd check that...

Hey,

Yeah its definatly a different colour in the resiviour than in the radiator. I guess they garrage put in a difffent fluid after the breakdown.

Recon i should siphon it out and fill it with water?

But wouldnt the two mix? Is it possible that the feed between the cooling system and the resiviour is blocked? Would this in turn cause too much presure? or is that rubbish?

Coolant additives in Aus, eg antifreeze, are green, or at least all the ones I have seen are. Should be the same colour thru the system tho as Chris has said. If the 2.8 is the same as 3ltr then it has 2 radiators and when topping up it pays to have both heaters on till after the thermostat opens so the whole system gets the same water.

Damn shame it happens when you are away tho.

On the plus side tho, you go camping for an adventure and your having it

Gee Toby, you're havin some rough luck there. If its any consolation, when I picked my Hiace up a couple of months ago, there was a loose hose off the thermostat housing and I lost water on my first day where I drove 400km. When I hit rush hour traffic in Auckland, the guage when all the way up to the top bar (digital) and started flashing. I fair crapped myself but managed to get the situation under control. I took the wagon to the workshop next day, and sorted it. They checked the head for cracks and blown head gasket and it was OK. I'd say hopefully you've avoided it.

There will be two tell tale signs you've got a major on your hands. When the motors cold, you should be able to remove the radiator cap and check for a foamy white scum on the top of the water. If it has it, don't drive it, it should be a coloured fluid, but not creamy in any way. Also, check your engine oil as well, remove the filler cap and inspect it for foamy scum too. Check the dipstick also. The oil should be black, without any bubbles or contaminates I reckon.

As also mentioned above, check your trans oil by the dipstick, and it should be red, or darkish red, again, make sure its not creamy though.

Creamy is when you take a fat soaked barbeque grill plate and soapy it up with water and dishwash detergent, oil and water hate to mix!

I've other colours than green in coolant, I boat I work on has used purple stuff before, perhaps you have some sort of mongrel mix in there. I think the red you see in the reservoir is staining on the reservoir itself. If you want to check consistency between the two, try to get a sample out of each in clear containers to get a real idea.

One last thing, if you are worried about pressurizing in your cooling system, you could leave the cap off and start it, it might bubble a bit for a start, but then settle down. If you get a lot continued bubbling, be worth a check again I think. Remember though, if you do this from cold, the coolant will expand until the operating temp is reached. By far the better way is to call into a garage and ask to have the cooling system pressure tested for leaks. That will highlight any leaks in your radiator, hoses etc, or more sinister things like a cracked head or blown head gasket. I'm surprised the Slovenians didn't do this for you though!

Radiator weld is not bad for a quick fix, but if you've got a new radiator on its way, you'll have peace of mind in your cooling system which is important, for you AND the missus!

Good luck! Battle on.

Yours is an auto yes?

The nearside of the rad is the gearbox oil cooler.
Is the leak where this joins the matrix, if so then it was not fixed back correctly.

The red in the expansion bottle is likely to be your old superheated coolant complete with rust and sludge. You can take the bottle out and clean it refit with clean coolant.

The UK army issue a bottle of Kalimax K-Seal to all units - works on all sorts of leaks even upto a bullet through the rad! Working on my Hiace suspected cracked head right now!

Hey,

Thanks for all the input and advice.

Well hoping the engine is ok as there is no foam, scumm, bubbles or any kind of inprities in the tranz or engine oil.

Clive, yeah it is an Auto. I thought the auto cooler was the second radiator, that is horosontal, infront and beneath the main Rad? The leak is in the vertical main rad. And looks to be where the black bracket bit meats the rusty(!) grey inner cooling fins bit. I can only describt it as a Jet of fluid that squirts across the rad and fan. (the garrage who did the repairs are trying to tell me its AC water or that the rad is over filled and its an overflow).

Anyway the wheels are truning but it looks like 2 weeks minimum to get a new Rad so now debating how far we may be able to drive with the leak so salvage some of our trip...

Hi Ref the Radiator,

I replaced my one last year as it got a leak in the side tank.

I had a major problem getting a replacement as it was quite rare (managed to get a used one and had it tested before buying it), as it has 7 connections, 2 of which are for the integral oil cooler for the Autobox. The 2 forward connections go to the front Horizontal radiator that I guess is for additional cooling, Fitting it is also a mission, as you need to take out the drivers seat, remove the AC pump and other items ( see other posts on this site) I had trouble in finding a garage that wanted to do it here in Auckland, so I did it myself.

Best of luck, and hopefully all will be fixed soon.

Martin.

Hmm. Just got word it's going to be another 4weeks minimum in the rad. Looks like i've no option bit to keep driving it and hope... Any tips?

Kalimax K-Seal http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/k-Seal-Engine-Cooling-System-and-Head-Repair-Additive-/290421148748?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item439e730c4c

or

liquid glass http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CAR-GO-LIQUID-GLASS-METALLIC-SEAL-UP-/330354788392?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4ceaae0828

the magic ingredient is this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_silicate

Good luck!

some of this stuff will probably do wonders. If the amount of coolant you are losing each day is minimal, you should be fine. Just remember to top it up when its safe to do so, and keep an eye on that temp guage. The oil looks fine, the coolant clean too, just make sure you don't run it low on water, and most importantly, don't overheat it! You know where the normal position is for the guage, so when it goes above it, make sure you stop!

If it is squirting out that quickly, I'd be very worried about using it.

When a rad is recored they reuse the end tanks and if fitted side plates. Sounds like the repair was not done correctly.

Not heard of having to remove A/C pump before, don't see why?

martinnz wrote:

Hi Ref the Radiator,

I replaced my one last year as it got a leak in the side tank.

I had a major problem getting a replacement as it was quite rare (managed to get a used one and had it tested before buying it), as it has 7 connections, 2 of which are for the integral oil cooler for the Autobox. The 2 forward connections go to the front Horizontal radiator that I guess is for additional cooling, Fitting it is also a mission, as you need to take out the drivers seat, remove the AC pump and other items ( see other posts on this site) I had trouble in finding a garage that wanted to do it here in Auckland, so I did it myself.

Best of luck, and hopefully all will be fixed soon.

Martin.

Hi Martin - if you're still out there - appreciate this post is 12 years old ... !

I've been struggling to find any information on the twin radiator set up. I've acquired a 1992 SC and on crawling below found a big void where AC condenser/ fans etc. should have been. But then on flushing cooling system discovered extra connections on the front of the vertical radiator, which on mine have been bypassed with a length of hose from left to right.

This led me to wonder if the missing horizontal assembly actually consisted of a 2nd radiator for engine cooling as well as the AC condenser.

All seems very bizarre as the air coming off the top of this is going to be warm and therefore the vertical rad is getting pre-heated air through it, which doesn't seem a great design! Unless there are some baffles/ shields etc to separate air flows - I'm second guessing because I've never seen a complete setup and there's no manuals covering it.

A separate puzzle is that the aforementioned bypass hose doesn't heat up as the system comes to temperature.

Any light you can shed on this would be really welcome!

Yours hopefully.

Dan

Hello Dan

Sorry to hear of your woes.

There are a few posts on here that suggest various arrangements for cooling.

On my van (a M/T LH119) there is a single vertical radiator, which is totally unconnected to the horizontal radiator. The vertical engine coolant radiator just has a big top hose from the thermostat, a big bottom return hose and a very thin third hose that connects back to the thermostat housing, but it’s not really for flow. The horizontal ‘radiator’ is part of the air conditioning. It has nothing to do with engine cooling.

It’s my initial guess that the additional hoses you have coming out of the vertical engine radiator is part of the automatic transmission cooler. It’s possible that the trans cooler pipes have failed in the past and it’s just been looped together and probably stoppered on the transmission, too, which is another potential worry.

There's another post here (today) with an owner replacing thier tranny cooling lines with copper, but as I said, I've got a M/T.

I agree that lack of decent manuals can be a hindrance but all is not lost. I’ve got several manuals but they are not really much help to be honest. I’ve found that the best way to seek clarity is to head over to the Toyota Electronic Parts Catalogue site, see:

https://toyota.epc-data.com/regius_ace/lh119v/114894/?color=9D4&trim=PB11

This is the link for my LH119 – RRMES van. Back up a few pages and you should hopefully be able to put in your exact model and options list (based on the ‘VIN’, well actually the letters against the model and engine codes; anything you can use will make the match better).

This and the linked ‘amayama’ site are really good but not all of the parts descriptions are where you might think. For example most of the air-conditioning is within the ‘electrics’ parts.

I can try to help with some manuals, but the exploded parts catalogues have taught me 95% of how things are arranged and what they do.

The cooling system on these vans is not great and mine has suffered some neglect. I’ve taken the plunge of getting my radiator re-cored and I’ll be doing more work on this, too. Rather than post the pictures here I’m going to add them to the ‘my van’ page as this is a common thing, I think. See: https://hiace-super-custom.forumotion.com/t4317-my-lh119#24208 and scroll down to today's date. I write the post there shortly...

Chin up and HTH!

Thanks LH119V - really useful info and the link to parts site.

Transmission coolant theory makes sense.

What would be ideal is to see some photos / video footage from a similar model that is actually all present and correct! I might ask this guy 'fixer merlin' who has some SC refurb video on you tube - this one has given me the best views of the set up to date: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNwBv8pcxkg&list=PL1h-c1UzNdO6PkKpkGPyf-KTw3sfqbkAe&index=6

Hello Dan

I got my epistle written on cooling and it's posted on my van page, see the link above.

Hopefully there's more food for thought as I go through all the major components of the cooling system as it relates to my van.

Yours might be different but hopefully the EPC is clear enough to show you how it should look and work.

HTH.

Good Morning Midlifemorriss,

On the early 90’s 1KZ Hiace there is a second horizontal radiator with the condenser sandwiched on top of it. The fan is a pusher assembly and uses a gasket between the two to keep air from escaping out the side. It uses a temp sender along with a signal wire from the compressor that goes to a resistor/ballast assembly on the drivers side of the assembly to trigger the fan.

The water temp sender is on the water neck at the top of the engine.

The condenser fan can come on when the AC is on, in addition to when the coolant gets too hot to provide additional cooling. The transmission cooling lines go to the vertical radiator which is cooled by an engine clutch fan.

I’ll attach some photos when I remember how of when I pulled the assembly to fix our condenser fan. It failed so I just ended up putting a fan off a race car on it to make things work as I couldn’t source a Toyota one. There’s a place from Australia that sells new all metal assemblies on eBay if you decide to put yours back on.

Ah the mystery is unraveling! So, does the horizontal radiator take its feed from the front side of the vertical radiator, and loop back into it?